WIZARDS OF MORCAR discussion

[manaknight14]

And the hammer artifact will never get used in my group. A base two attack is not better than a longsword. And a buffed 4 attack is not better than a battle axe. And you can't attack diagonally with the hammer. I think it would have made it a very in demand item for this expansion if the base att was 3 and the buffed one against constructs was 5. I know they will probably never go to 5 attack with any weapon but this 5 would one really be useful in this expansion and only in certain circumstances.

A couple of points about the hammer:

• It doesn't say it can't be used with a shield. Being able to swing for 4AD with a one-handed weapon is a rare ability, even if only against certain enemies. Only the Spirit Blade, the Dragon Spear, and (depending on how you use it) Orc's Bane have been able to claim that before.
• The card doesn't say the wizard can't use it, and I think the odds of that being a mistake are low because the flavor text seems to imply it belonged to an artificer, which this expansion is treating as a type of wizard. A wizard with a 4AD attack is a huge deal, even if it only has niche uses.
• There are quests outside this expansion where the hammer's special ability may apply. There is a quest in Jungles of Delthrak that has a big golem and a bunch of monsters made from animated stone that seem like perfect targets for the hammer. Depending on Zargon's interpretation, you could also argue the hammer should get 4AD against gargoyles.

[Kurgan]

How do you all track body points for your mercenaries? I have thus far used skull tiles as if they were monsters, regardless of what side they're on. I know some people like to use spare movement dice (assuming you have that many, I guess now that I've played 40, I do... heh).

Granted, a merc only gets 2 and healing them is pretty rare outside of ROTDM, but if you use a skull tile, that's maybe 12 more skull tiles that could be a "needed" in a quest. WOM got right into the action, so if you had gold to spend, you could hire men-at-arms right away. In any case, those skull tiles may get a lot of use if this is your own only expansion, BUT the firebursts are rare, so still room for them I think. We don't know what fancy extras will be used in the new five quests (other than a key!) specifically in terms of tiles. For all we know they're hiding even more interesting things on the backs of those skull tiles, or maybe they've gone boring on us again and it's the same image on both sides (in that case I'm going to be disappointed, they have the ability to use all of tiles of the original this way).

[LucaRocks]

And the hammer artifact will never get used in my group. A base two attack is not better than a longsword. And a buffed 4 attack is not better than a battle axe. And you can't attack diagonally with the hammer. I think it would have made it a very in demand item for this expansion if the base att was 3 and the buffed one against constructs was 5. I know they will probably never go to 5 attack with any weapon but this 5 would one really be useful in this expansion and only in certain circumstances.

A couple of points about the hammer:

• It doesn't say it can't be used with a shield. Being able to swing for 4AD with a one-handed weapon is a rare ability, even if only against certain enemies. Only the Spirit Blade, the Dragon Spear, and (depending on how you use it) Orc's Bane have been able to claim that before.
• The card doesn't say the wizard can't use it, and I think the odds of that being a mistake are low because the flavor text seems to imply it belonged to an artificer, which this expansion is treating as a type of wizard. A wizard with a 4AD attack is a huge deal, even if it only has niche uses.
• There are quests outside this expansion where the hammer's special ability may apply. There is a quest in Jungles of Delthrak that has a big golem and a bunch of monsters made from animated stone that seem like perfect targets for the hammer. Depending on Zargon's interpretation, you could also argue the hammer should get 4AD against gargoyles.

Nice breakdown! A lot of good points that I didn't think about. Thanks!

[Nlinindoll]

Well, color me a bit disappointed. Of the images above that we can read (thanks for posting guys!), the spells are pretty much the same as in the original.WOM (except escape). I will be very disappointed if all the spells of the original stay the same as some of them were so weak. Unless the stats of the wizards was changed to make their base attack or defense less..

More double based monsters having 4att/5def is also a bit of a letdown. So many monsters have those stats. Hopefully the Bp of each is different. I'm also wondering if the other golem.will have a different card with different stats (like the female Ogre warriors). I thought for sure they would have special abilities. At least the Minotaur has a special ability that sounds cool from what I can read.

And the hammer artifact will never get used in my group. A base two attack is not better than a longsword. And a buffed 4 attack is not better than a battle axe. And you can't attack diagonally with the hammer. I think it would have made it a very in demand item for this expansion if the base att was 3 and the buffed one against constructs was 5. I know they will probably never go to 5 attack with any weapon but this 5 would one really be useful in this expansion and only in certain circumstances.

I think the POINT of this artifact is that it may be appealing to the Wizard. If the Wizard can use, s/he has a 2 attack dice attack anyway, but this Artifact hammer means the Wizard can stand their own against the Golems which are a tougher enemy than most. It would be a shame if in this expansion, the Wizard didn't receive anything unique or couldn't stand their ground against one of the new monsters.

Making an artifact appealing to the Wizard in this expansion, is similar to what they did with the Sapphire Skull Artifact from Jungles Of Delthrak.... a unique artifact that wasn't all that powerful EXCEPT to the Berserker who cannot normally used "Ranged Weapons", but since the Sapphire Skull isn't a weapon... It's a not-overly-powered Artifact meant to be appealing to a specific character.

[SirRick]

I was really hoping the artifact would have been equivalent to a Broadsword or Battle Axe. It reminds me of the Ice Queen’s Spear, in which standard weapons would be better in almost all situations (except for ethereal monsters).

I’m really curious about the hero spells, and the boon cards. For the spells I really hope they were increased in power slightly, or that there are other methods for casters to get more spells, so they will be more likely to try the new ones. Artifact or Boon maybe?

For the skills one card says Healing Hands, and on picture that is fairly blurry appears to show a card called Weapon Expert, but it really too hard to see. I would like to see how they compare with some advancement options I’ve been theorizing about on paper. I wonder what sort of requirements there will be to acquire one of these skills? Perhaps gold, or surviving a certain number of quests? I can’t wait to see!

Overall I am very excited about this pack!

[wallydubbs]

I thought the Walls of Flame, Ice & Stone were 2BP... Maybe that was only changed when remastered into Wizards of Zargon.

I'm sure there will be other changes. We're just not sure what all the other cards say right now. I was thinking Treasure Hoard would be changed to "Draw 3 Treasure cards the next time you search for treasure, you must take all 3 or none at all."

As of late I've been experimenting with the Old Wizards of Morcar characters in the arena. I suppose I found a new understanding to some of the evil Wizard spells. They might be low key against heroes but seem to work well against monsters. Madness doesn't just allow the High Mage to move a hero, but the hero is unable to attack, so it adds a little more to Tempest. The Storm Master's Lightning Bolt still seems underwhelming compared to the Dread Spell. Fear prevents a hero from attacking and casting, so this'll probably changed to Terror. It still seems a little weird that none of these spells challenge a hero's mind points.

However, just want to note that the Hammer Artifact doesn't say "May Not be used by the Wizard."

[Kurgan]

yes on Ye Olde Inn, switch the flag to the UK and you'll see the original english version. I'm with you, I bet the revamp was for use with Phoenix's NA conversion. Good catch, I hadn't checked them to see if the stats changes not just the format. BUT those are some neat suggestions if you prefer Ye Olde Inn's version!

I checked... the revamped versions make each of the walls 2 BP instead of one (stone for hero protection spell, fire for high mage, ice for storm master).

[Kurgan]

We're trying to update the info... so far sources include BigBadToyStore and also Amazon.com (US) which show many images (the latter in higher resolution in several cases) as well as Reddit, and of course the live reporting we got from Dungeon Master on youtube (though of course at SPIEL Essen the contents were in German so if you don't read it, translation is needed). Price is up $5 from the other "big box" expansions and release date is officially March 1st for the US anyway (available for pre-order on those two pages now). I saw Zavvi also appeared and probably some other sites soon too, but not Hasbro Pulse yet.

Now we know the official title is "Wizards of Morcar" and not Zargon. Zargon is mentioned on the back of the box, so we don't yet know the meaning of "Morcar" in the context of this story. There's a new story too, about the power of 1000 sorcerers under an altar that Zargon is trying to gain for himself (sounds like something out of 40k...) and mention of a kind of skill or level building system.

Sadly, no Rogue included. No Haslab sculpts. There are 5 new quests but no indication that this has anything to do with the lost Wizard quest pack, other than a nod to fans who wanted a female Wizard sculpt, though the WQP was going to have a (single square base) Minotaur, and the Dwarf pack was going to have a (very different looking) rock golem monster, so there's some inspiration there at least!

No extra dice or other fluff or filler this time, just new sculpts (no reused sculpts from past expansions either though the poses draw inspiration from the classic era as well as past releases). The bad guy designs are pretty faithful though the Orc boss is totally changed. Turns out those AliExpress leaks were accurate (except the door mimic must have had a piece missing from the one that was being illicitly allegedly, sold, though there's a whole conspiracy being proposed that the green figures weren't even from AE in the first place I guess because nobody could locate the sales link, that's beyond the scope of the conversation as far as I'm concerned, but interesting if true).

But there IS a Sir Ragnar mini with a design based on what we saw on the ROTDM box (although Max Dunbar designed that art, he didn't work on WOM, reports seekhashem from a direct correspondence with him online).

There is a (new) female wizard, a mix of the designs of the classic Wizard character board and mini art (and a more classic looking portrait on the card art even though it's a female version of the Wizard). She also features on two of the new Hero spell groups (Protection and Darkness) while Protection is the male Wizard.

Virg on our HeroQuestFans discord has been putting together a list of the known WOM cards, so some mysteries remain even after the "big reveal" at Spiel Essen. Here is what we know so far...

Artifact (2)
Urdyn the Unmaker [ a special hammer that is 3 attack dice, apparently has no wizard or shield restriction, and hits with 4 against a magical "construct" that is, a golem or dread shifter]
Unknown

Monster (4)
Dreadshifter [5, 4, 3, 2, 4] - appears when you move adjacent or diagonally adjacent to the specific chest or door
Minotaur [7, 4, 5, 5, 4] - has a "gore" attack of 2 combat dice but we don't see the full text
Golem [5, 4, 5, 3, ?, ?] - another construct like the Dread Shifter
Sir Ragnar** [7,3, 5, 6, 2]

Mercenaries (4)
The Crossbowman [same as frozen horror including the hire price]
The Halberdier [same as frozen horror including the hire price]
The Scout [same as frozen horror including the hire price]
The Swordsman [same as frozen horror including the hire price]

Boon of Heroism (6)
Healing Hands
Weapon Expert
---keeper
-

Treasure (8)
Nothing [from the original EU game!]
Magical Trap
-
-
-
-
-
-

Wizard (1) [same stats as the GS wizard, unlike card art]

Spells of Darkness (3)
Chains of Darkness
Cloak of Shadows
Arrows of the Night *

Spells of Detection (3)
Future Sight
Treasure Horde
Clairvoyance*

Spells of Protection (3)
Wall of Stone
Dispell*
Invisibility*

Artificer Spell (6)
Conjure Dreadshifter*
Conjure Golem
Leach Life
Be---
---Dread Powers!
-

High Mage Spell (6)
Wall of Flame
Escape
Dispell*
Madness*
Rust*
Strands of Binding*


Necromancer Spell (6)
Summon Mummy
Call Skeleton*
Death Bolt
Fear*
Raise the Dead*
Skulls of Doom*

Storm Master Spell (6)
Lightning Strike
Blinding Sheet*
Earthquake
Hurricane*
Thieving Wind*
Wall of Ice*

Warcaster Spell Cards (6)
Sharpen Blades
Orc Berserker*
Shield of Protection*
Spirit of Vengeance*
Summon Goblins*
Summon Orcs*

64 Cards Total

*not seen updated card text to confirm full text
**not confirmed. (Amazon shows a card for him, and this is the only remaining place he could be)
“---” implies missing text (card not fully visible)

I would add the following list of Treasure from the 1991 (or 1990 or 1992, I guess technically the booklet says '91 though I've been talking as if it came out in '92, it definitely was out already by the time Frozen Horror and Mage of the Mirror were being worked on)...

2x Magical Trap (we've seen one of them)
Poison
Potion of Alchemy
Potion of Charm
Potion of Magical Aptitude
Potion of Magic Resistance (spell effects)
Potion of Magic Resistance (fire spells)

We are guessing one of the Treasure cards has been dropped to make room for the "nothing" card. Otherwise there are 65 cards (9 treasure). Unless we're missing something elsewhere...

So far we know that the Mercenaries use the same stats and abilities (though the booklet explains more about them and we haven't seen inside that yet) as the human mercs from the Frozen Horror. And indeed, if you mix those gray mercs with these (dark blue/black, red, and purple/magenta), you'll have enough for all possible weapon combinations found in the original version, though the original limited you to hiring 4 per hero (for a total of 16, though only 12 bodies came with the box... you could get another 12 if you purchased "Advanced Quest").
You will also be able to mix and match them between the two expansions to have an "all male" or "all female" contingent of 12 if you wish instead of the mixed group.

We know that the evil wizards have retained their unique sets of 6 dread spell cards each. So far only "Escape" has changed... it is identical to the NA/remake GS version, going to a designated hidden spot on the map instead of to any unoccupied but already explored square on the map, so it's a little better for Zargon.

We haven't seen the backs of the skull and pink fog ("Cloak of Shadows" single) tiles to see if the rubble, breached wall, first burst, and (possible) Pit of darkness tiles are there (of course if you need the latter, they are found in ATOH).

I was going to complain about the lack of entrance/exit doors, but then I checked the booklet and there's only one quest that calls for a single entrance door, otherwise you use the spiral staircase like the GS, so no problem.

The original did have mentions of Orcs with Bows, but sadly none are included in this one (in the original, like the original ATOH you just used your imagination). In the original so many are called for that you wouldn't have enough from ATOH remake alone (I think up to 6 at a time where called for... though Zargon could use some of the crossbowmen as monsters I suppose). The original WOM also called for goblins with bows, but here again you could reach for ATOH remake and JoD to supply those if you want a "ranged" miniature to enhance the experience.

We have no idea what's in the new quests other than that there's several new things not in the original version:

Female Wizard hero (different sculpt than Haslab version, an improvement here I would say)
Sir Ragnar purple mini (matching one set of four mercenaries). <--- this could be a cool figure to use with ROTDM and its prequel quest, and even Quest 2 of the Game System!)
Minotaur (double base, gray monster)
Golem (green double base statue monsters "magical constructs" in a new shade of green; a chunkier more comical "rock golem" was planned for the lost Dwarf quest pack)
Dread Shifter (in the same green as above, more constructs, this time a toothy, multi-eyed treasure chest mimic and a door mimic with oversized teeth and tongue)

Artificer (a new bad guy, a 5th wizard, a female character in dark blue plastic like the other bad guys bearing some kind of giant scroll on her back and carrying a large maul type weapon). She too has 6 spells, presumed to be new, but we don't have all the text yet.

Village tile (has a copy of the box art on the back... which by the way doesn't depict the Wizard or Dwarf heroes... nor the new Artificer either to be exact)

New room tile (I called it an arena, but it's kind of an "eyeball" shaped magic circle drawn on a tiled floor, possibly a magician's study or maybe a jail cell someone escaped from, or built around a creature they were magically imprisoning) on the BACK of the Magical Reference Chart (yes, that huge tile is still in there!).

A mysterious coffin tile with a giant anatomical "heart" on it.

14 skull tiles (since the skull representing monster damage system didn't exist in the original).

While the "Cloak of Shadows" 2x3 spell effect tile is still present, there's also an inclusion of the 6 individual tiles that make it up. We don't know precisely the rules for this, but presumably this is not just a nostalgic nod to the early "misprint" version but so that you can use it the small corridors too.

A single square "key" tile.

A small "boons of heroism" deck somehow tied presumably, to the Village Tile since it bears an image from there

Grawshak might not appear in this set at all (he mentions in "Dread on the Horizon" which is not yet officially released in digital but we've shared it on the forums scanned from the one given away at GenCon and Spiel Essen... that he "failed" and his more powerful daughter Nyashak [sp] will take his place. [by the way that free quest has an undead Goblin for a wandering monster OR "deal 1 BP damage to Kurgan," heh].

I suppose they could substitute the same mini, or the Orc with the large sword, but thus far Nyashak (who looks like a half-orc Cleric, carrying an incense burner that looks like a bunch of orc skulls and a jagged sword) is called a "Warcastor" (instead of Orc Shaman) but her powers seem so far the same as his.

The three magical walls are sculpted (two in translucent plastic clear and orange, and then the stone in opaque gray) and have elemental monster faces in them. No dark blue "wall bases" needed this time.

The rest of the cards we can make out seem to be the same as the original version, but more info to come there hopefully soon...

[wallydubbs]

Keep in mind that the back of the box uses the term "remastered" in regards to the quests. The 5 original quests are subject to change, but it's likely there will be minor alterations. As you said, there were Orc and Goblin archers in the original. The fact that Avalon Hill included them in other quest packs but not this one suggests that they may have done away with these archers and likely changed around a few monsters. I think it likely that 5 of these will only based on the original, but not likely a carbon copy as did in Frozen Horror.

I've seen a similar town square mechanic used by Baker in "Where Heroes Dare," the heroes will visit various areas in town, like the temple for blessings, training center for skills, Oracle to foretell the future, thieves guild to trade or sell artifacts, etc. This will probably be on addition to the Armory and Alchemist Shop.

It's good to have a "Nothing" card in the treasure deck, maybe even finding gold and losing a turn collecting it. As mentioned, some of the WoM cards are redundant in the North American version, such as the Potion of Alchemy, Fire resistance and Potion of Magical Aptitude. Those can be replaced.

I would imagine, much like the Golums were taken from the Dwarf Quest Pack, the Hammer artifact too might be taken from that quest pack. You said the hammer is 3 attack dice, but 4 on magically spawned monsters. I could've sworn it said 2... Either way I'm very excited about what this quest pack has to offer and I'm deleted to be wrong about them remaking it.

[Kurgan]

Magical Aptitude is still useful, since the Wand of Magic is held by only one hero, and so another spell castor could benefit from having it (like the Elf) even if it's a one-time use, right?

Magic Resistance against all spell effects is very powerful, though I grant you that most spells cast against the heroes are simply damage causing, but it would negate at least a quarter of the spells in this pack. Yes, it's possible you win this one and take a few you stockpiled into another expansion, but they are not going to presume you also have saved up the old Magic Resistance (which is against damage caused by spells only) to bring here.

I could see Potion of Alchemy being removed, and maybe as a nod to the fans, making it something you find in the quest notes (though I would miss the inspired card art as I would with any removed item). Where I would certainly miss Potion of Alchemy is when a clever hero says he uses it after the high mage rusts his equipment, boom. At least he gets some gold out of what is otherwise destroyed (if Zargon allows it, but I would because it's so cool!). I would print my own version of the card just for this opportunity alone! But apart from this gimmick, yes it's useless except to make a profit on a dagger you no longer want to throw at an enemy (without an Alchemist Shop the Wizard may still want gold to spend on Mercenaries which are more expensive now than in the original WOM though the Potion of Charm would provide a discount). Though what if they simplified it and got rid of the "Charm" and just said you have the automatic rehire bonus and leave it at that? (the original had a very generous 10 gold rehire price for any surviving merc but the prices were lower in general, they also were only 1 BP each). They clearly wanted to encourage the heroes to hire them and to retain them if they could rather than using them as pure cannon fodder (though they would be that too judging by some of the difficulty, a single failure on the part of the Scout to disarm a trap for example would have been deadly... I wonder if we'll get the "incapacitated" option again here?).

Actually I've made a glaring omission... the two Magic Resistances in WOM are different. I had forgotten and I need to read more carefully. So Magic Resistance (all effects) is used immediately when a spell is cast upon the hero and then he can ignore the effects. The other one (fire effects) is used PREEMPTIVELY to negate the effect of the new fire magic attack that hits you. This specifically is meant to protect you from Fire Burst Traps that do damage... but also fire based evil spells, though only "Skulls of Doom" (Necromancer) is explicitly mentioned to be so ("like a fireball") though maybe Zargon would interpret Lightning Bolt or Death Bolt also to be protected from.

If you're assuming players will just use Magic Resistance from ROTDM/FH... a plain generic "damage caused from a spell" version, and Zargon is feeling generous that Magical traps still count, then I guess you don't need the "fire" one. Maybe they want to give Zargon an easier time so this is the one removed?

I think if I had to vote for which one would have to "leave the deck" to make room for the "nothing" nostalgia card, I guess I would at this point vote for Poison (but for sheer completeness I wouldn't want any of them removed, you understand). It's unique, but it's so weak.