Mind points for rerolls?

[mitchiemasha]

I'd seen the Evil Wizard cards while looking around. I really like them!

If you don't get chance to print a deck a similar alternative is to use the Chaos Tokens from Advanced HeroQuest. Not quite as varied only having 6 outcomes but multiples of the same. The rules for which are in my signature.

[wallydubbs]

I totally get where Hightech is coming from; he wants to make the mind points more interactive with the game. Respectively I also see the point mitchie's been trying to get across, but it doesn't change the fact that adding or removing mind points will have little consequence unless you're fighting a spell caster. The Dwarf will still know how to disarm traps if he loses a mind point or two.

I too have feld that the Mind Points should have some extra value, however I'm not on board with them being a currency for rerolls; that's why we have Potions of Battle. The other option of reading a spell scroll and rolling for mind points is gold, though.

The later quests, particularly Frozen Horror and Mage of the Mirror do introduction poison cards in the Treasure deck that could reduce mind points, as well as a Sky Orb artifact, which does nothing if you're not losing mind points.
Because of the added difficulties and length of these later quests the Wizard will run out of spells much more quickly, so I proposed in another thread to base spell casting abilities off of mind points. This way, by giving the Wizard the Talisman of Lore it makes him much more useful in the later quest packs once you include the Wizards of Morcar spells.
Also, if he loses a mind point he'll lose a spell set. I also thought of applying this to the Elf: 5 mind points still allows him only 1 spell set, but he may choose 6 Elf Spells instead of 3.
If the Dwarf moves up to 4 mind points he may cast Earth Spells but ONLY on himself.

This may work well enough in my groups, but others may not like it, as is their right, but I just thought I'd throw that alternative out there.

[mitchiemasha]

Don't get me wrong. I'm all for bringing Mind more into the game. There's many mods i love that do as such.

[Spookyhappyfun]

I totally get where Hightech is coming from; he wants to make the mind points more interactive with the game. Respectively I also see the point mitchie's been trying to get across, but it doesn't change the fact that adding or removing mind points will have little consequence unless you're fighting a spell caster. The Dwarf will still know how to disarm traps if he loses a mind point or two.

I too have feld that the Mind Points should have some extra value, however I'm not on board with them being a currency for rerolls; that's why we have Potions of Battle. The other option of reading a spell scroll and rolling for mind points is gold, though.

The later quests, particularly Frozen Horror and Mage of the Mirror do introduction poison cards in the Treasure deck that could reduce mind points, as well as a Sky Orb artifact, which does nothing if you're not losing mind points.
Because of the added difficulties and length of these later quests the Wizard will run out of spells much more quickly, so I proposed in another thread to base spell casting abilities off of mind points. This way, by giving the Wizard the Talisman of Lore it makes him much more useful in the later quest packs once you include the Wizards of Morcar spells.
Also, if he loses a mind point he'll lose a spell set. I also thought of applying this to the Elf: 5 mind points still allows him only 1 spell set, but he may choose 6 Elf Spells instead of 3.
If the Dwarf moves up to 4 mind points he may cast Earth Spells but ONLY on himself.

This may work well enough in my groups, but others may not like it, as is their right, but I just thought I'd throw that alternative out there.

Some good stuff in here. I like it!

[wallydubbs]

Thanks Spookhappy.
I also introduced Magically Sealed Doors in certain quests (Melar's Maze, Borrak Tor, etc), where the hero needs to roll 1 red die equal to or less then his mind points to open. If he fails the door will blast him and he'll lose one body point. This will make the Wizard more important, with 6 mind points he won't have to roll.

In addition to improving the Wizard's ability, I made adjustments to Wizards of Morcar: I changed the way Fireburst traps are set off. Fireburst and other Magical Traps can only be detected by the Wizard (and Elf if he has 5 or more Mind points) on a "Search for Traps" action.
By extension, Magical traps can be disarmed with a "Dispell" spell or clouded over with a Cloak of Shadows, also disarming it since Magic cannot be used in the Cloak of Shadows.

[Tott]

The mind points aren't useless. There's a hidden balance in the characters. The Mind point pays for your skill and your total attributes add up to 16.

The Barbarian has weapon skill and brute strength (+1Ad6). The Dwarf has weapon skill and traps. The Elf has weapon skill and 1 magic. The wizard has 3 magic.

Barbarian: "B8M2:10" "Weapons Y:1(A2D2:4)5" "Skill +1A:1" = 16
Dwarf: "B7M3:10" "Weapons Y:1 (A2D2:4)5" "Skill Traps:1" = 16
Elf: "B6M4:10" "Weapons Y:1 (A2D2:4)5" "Magic:1" = 16
Wizard: "B4M6:10" "Weapons N:0 (A1D2:3)3" "Magic:3" = 16

B+M=10
A+D+S=6

S=Spells and/or Skill

so was this a formula released by the games designers or what?

whatever its origin, i dont see how it would prevemt the mind points being spent on something extra such as rerolls, however, from a thematic point of view i cant really understand why rerolls would cause you to lose mind points (when you get to zero you're unconcious) i would rather see them used to soak certain damage types or negative effects in much the same way that body points do. in effect, the mind points would be more like santity or will power. in that case certain monster types (wizards or ghosts maybe) could do mind damage instead of physical damage.

[Mortanius]

I've used the mechanic from from chaos spells as a base for other Mind based mechanics.
Essentially, roll a number of movement dice equal to the hero's mind. Each 5 or 6 is a success. Number of successes being required for specific actions
I like to go through each quest ahead of time and tweak some things. Such as:
Difficulty to find some traps (dwarf requires fewer successes)
Difficulty to find special treasures I've added to otherwise "empty" rooms
Using the sorcerer's table to replenish used spells or find spell scrolls
Finding random potions on the alchemist bench
Searching the book shelves for bits of lore (hints or tips for defeating bosses or puzzles)

I don't usually allow much in the way of rerolls.
But, I used to have a list of skills/abilities based on number of mind. Any hero increasing his mind could choose one of the abilities on the list for his new mind.
For spell casters, each new mind point granted 3 more spells.

[Mortanius]

The mind points aren't useless. There's a hidden balance in the characters. The Mind point pays for your skill and your total attributes add up to 16.

The Barbarian has weapon skill and brute strength (+1Ad6). The Dwarf has weapon skill and traps. The Elf has weapon skill and 1 magic. The wizard has 3 magic.

Barbarian: "B8M2:10" "Weapons Y:1(A2D2:4)5" "Skill +1A:1" = 16
Dwarf: "B7M3:10" "Weapons Y:1 (A2D2:4)5" "Skill Traps:1" = 16
Elf: "B6M4:10" "Weapons Y:1 (A2D2:4)5" "Magic:1" = 16
Wizard: "B4M6:10" "Weapons N:0 (A1D2:3)3" "Magic:3" = 16

B+M=10
A+D+S=6

S=Spells and/or Skill

so was this a formula released by the games designers or what?

whatever its origin, i dont see how it would prevemt the mind points being spent on something extra such as rerolls, however, from a thematic point of view i cant really understand why rerolls would cause you to lose mind points (when you get to zero you're unconcious) i would rather see them used to soak certain damage types or negative effects in much the same way that body points do. in effect, the mind points would be more like santity or will power. in that case certain monster types (wizards or ghosts maybe) could do mind damage instead of physical damage.

I like the idea of some monsters doing mind damage instead of physical damage. This would make those monsters more of a threat to lower mind heroes (especially the Barbarian). If a magic user lost mind in this way, I would allow the player to choose whether the character lost a set of spells or a random spell from 3 different spell sets.
I think, if something like this was implemented, it might cause issues with spending mind for things like rerolls or resisting specific effects. But what if each hero began each quest with a number of Willpower (I'm thinking some type of token) that can be spent for the reroll of specific damage prevention. I can also see each hero class having a specific action or 2 that would gain a number of willpower each time they are performed. I would place a maximum limit on how much willpower a hero can have at any given time.

[fleximum]

I had not thought of this, but now I will also use it in our rules, although they have already been extended extensively