Where does Morcar live?

[benvoliothefirst]

Difficult question. You can't place the Ogre Hordes Questbook, neither the Witch lord's den, so why place Morcar?
I think he lives together with Zargon in the same apartment, directly left to the flat of Mentor. However all of them are so good in disguising their real appearance that neither is aware of the others.

Welcome!

I've tended to sideline Zargon/Morcar in my quest packs, instead having the forces of chaos as a generic enemy. Why not place him wherever feels "right" to you? There was nothing canon or official it seems your thoughts are every bit as right as ours. Personally, I'd stash him somewhere in the northern reaches of the World's Edge Mountains. PS...I did place the Witch Lords city of.....can't remember the name offhand....kalos maybe? in the south where Warhammer maps have a city named Morgheim. The description fit nicely and the backstory too.

Wait, Kalos is Morgheim?! WHAT? How?!?! Please share your research notes, that sounds awesome and I'd love to be able to back it up with some evidence!

[thequester]

Ok, in the Hero Quest box, there are two "books". "Rules of Play" and the "Quest Book".
Both contain hints at where Morcar resides and who he is - he is clearly not the same as Mentor. I've boldfaced some of the relevant parts below.


This is the atmosphere text at the beginning of Rules of Play:

"Heed well the words of Mentor, Guardian of Loretome, and
I will tell you of times past, of darker days when the Empire was saved
against all hope. For I fear the darkness is about to return..."

"The fell legions of Morcar, Lord of Chaos, had swept all before
them. At the sight of the Black Banner and the massed hordes of Chaos,
even the bravest warriors of the Emperor had turned tail and fled, the
land was laid waste and all men despaired.

"But then there came a mighty warrior Prince from the
Borderlands - Rogar the Barbarian they called him. He bore a
glittering diamond on his brow - the Star of the West - as worn by the
ancient kings of legend. Hope returned and men flocked to his standard,
leaving their hiding places in the hills and forests. Other great heroes
joined him: Durgin, the fearless Dwarven warrior from the World's Edge
Mountains, Ladril the Elven fighter mage from distant Athelorn and
Telor the Wizard whose sorcery was to save Rogar on many occasions.

"For many years Rogar trained his army, being careful to avoid
open battle with Morcar's general until all was ready; but ever harried
their supply lines, wiping out countless Orcs and Goblins.

"Then came the day for which Rogar had waited. His army had
grown strong and was well practised. Camping in the high passes, Ladril
saw the Black Hosts from afar and bade Durgin blow the call to arms on
his mighty horn. Rogar's army poured down upon the enemy from two
sides and battle was joined. Many foul creature and good men perished
that day. Yet, as the light of day faded it was Darkness that fled the
field. But the victory was not absolute. Morcar and his general escaped
beyond the Sea of Claws, and even now they plot their revenge. Soon
their plots will be ready and the Empire will have need of a new Rogar.
But where are the heroes to equal him? You have much to learn if you
are to become as great as Rogar and his companions. I will help all I can.
The book I carry - Loretome - was written when time began. All that
ever was and all that ever will be is recorded in its countless pages.
Through Loretome I may guide you, but I may not intervene, lest a
greater evil befall the World and Chaos triumph forever."


Text at the beginning of the Quest Book:

The fire burns warmly, but casts little light into Mentor's study.
The flickering shadows only hint at the vast number of books and scrolls
that fill the many shelves. Slowly Mentor walks over to the fire.
"Well, my friends, your training is complete. You are not yet
Heroes, you have yet to prove yourselves. But first, let me tell you of
Morcar........
"Many centuries ago, Morcar was my apprentice. He worked hard
and learned quickly. But impatience devoured him, and he wanted to learn
more powerful magic. I told him of the dangers, and that he should be
patient, for in time he would become a great wizard. But Morcar could not wait:
each night he broke into my study and read my spell books. The secrets that
were held within them were great indeed. Once he had learnt these secrets,
Morcar fled.
"When I caught up with him, I found him greatly changed. He had pledged his
allegiance to the Great Powers of Chaos. Fool! He saw magic only as a short-cut
to power and paid no heed to the terrible price he would have to pay. I tried
to reason with him, but to no avail. He laughed in my face and then unleashed a
terrible spell which I was hard-pressed to counter. For many days we battled,
but Morcar had allies stronger even than I, and I could not defeat him. In the
end, as we both weakened, he fled and sought refuge in the Northern Chaos
Wastes. There he licked his wounds and honed his skills, conjuring ancient
powers with which to overthrow the Empire. But he knows not what he has done.
They will serve him while it suits their own dark purposes, but in time they
will destroy him.
"I must watch Morcar and measure the strength of his magic. This I may do
with the help of Loretome. The powers Morcar has called upon will destroy us
all if I relax from this vigil. Morcar's legions have threatened us once
before. Then it was Rogar who aided me and defeated them. Now they are on the
march again: already have they assailed the Borderlands. The Empire must again
look for Heroes and to this end have I trained you.
"Each of you must complete three tasks. If you do this, you will be
acclaimed as Champions of the Realm and dubbed Imperial Knights. Then will you
truly be on the road to becoming a Hero. I shall speak with you again on your
return - if you return.......


And, for completeness, here's the text at the end of the Quest Book, which hints that Morcar is indeed (still) a physical "person" and not some abstract "god":

"You have done well. And yet it seems your task is hardly begun.
Dark clouds gather at the Empire's borders...
"The Emperor rode with his army towards Black Fire Pass, that
perilous mountain route linking the Empire and the Borderlands. No such
army has ever been raised in living memory. Greater even than Rogar's
host it was. They drew up their battle lines on the grassy plains at the
foot of the mountain road and waited. 'Ere nightfall, the sky darkened and
a great wind arose. Spine-chilling shrieks and howls echoed from the
mountain tops, terrifying the horses and filling man and elf alike with
fear.
"Then came the first assault. Pouring down the mountainside as
though it were a gentle slope rather than an almost vertical cliff, the
hordes of Morcar fell upon the Empire's defenders. Like a black wave they
came; but the lines held and it seemed we should win the day.
"But I had not reckoned with Morcar's magic. He stood high on a
ridge overlooking the battlefield and unleashed his terrible magic.
Lightning flashed from his fingertips and great gouts of flame exploded
among the defenders. Our lines were breached in a dozen places at once and
the enemy howled in delight.
"Then came the Doomguard - Morcar's elite force of Chaos
Knights. Our army broke and ran. Only the Emperor's personal guard held
their ground and many sacrificed themselves to ensure his safe retreat.
"The remnants of the army are now holed up in Karak Varn - the
ancient dwarven stronghold. They do not have provisions for a long siege,
however, so we must act swiftly if we are to save the Emperor and his
army.
"Yet there is another evil to be confronted. The Witch Lord lives.
He too had magic I had not foreseen and was protected from the Spirit
Blade. He was sorely wounded however, and fled to his ancient retreat in
the Black Mountains. But soon he will have recovered enough to lead the
Legion of the Damned once more.
"The Empire has great need of you. I myself cannot act against
these dangers, for I must move against Morcar and strive to weaken his
power. Until we meet again, take care, my friends. Farewell......."

If one crosses the Sea of Claws, one gets to Norsca, and if one travels further north, one gets to the Northern Chaos Wastes.
See
https://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammerfb/images/c/c7/Warhammer_olde_world_map.jpg
and
http://whfb.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/c/cd/Great_War_against_Chaos_Map.jpg

[Goblin-King]

Damn you all and your "Morcar is Mentor" """theory""""
Morcar is literally Skeletor. "Nyaah! Foiled again"! He is as simple and apparent as a villain can be.


Anyways... I'd probably place him either in the Chaos Wastes (because he is a chaos warlock) or The Worlds Edge Mountains (as that seems to be where most of the action takes place).

[whitebeard]

Ok, in the Hero Quest box, there are two "books". "Rules of Play" and the "Quest Book".
Both contain hints at where Morcar resides and who he is - he is clearly not the same as Mentor. I've boldfaced some of the relevant parts below.

All of this information comes to you "through the ages from Mentor." Mentor could have a split personality and believe he sees / saw these things.

Or he could be completely aware that he is Morcar/Zargon and is simply afraid that the old alliances (elves, dwarves, men, and wizards) will degenerate into infighting in the absence of such a foe. So completing a prophecy leading to his own mortality. So he keeps the puppeteer in the shadows called Morcar/Zargon "alive".

The point of the HQ universe is that Zargon's only "equal" is Mentor. Mentor has lived centuries through his magic power and vast knowledge. Mentor does not quest with you and the heroes could never withstand a direct assault from Zargon. The heroes will always remain minor players to Mentor. But the heroes could sneak past his minions and toss his ring into Mount Doom because Zargon completely fails to understand what the other side means by "victory" and a willingness to sacrifice ones self for the same. But then the HQ game would be over, because you just killed your Game Master!

[Anderas]

Damn you all and your "Morcar is Mentor" """theory""""
Morcar is literally Skeletor. "Nyaah! Foiled again"! He is as simple and apparent as a villain can be.


Anyways... I'd probably place him either in the Chaos Wastes (because he is a chaos warlock) or The Worlds Edge Mountains (as that seems to be where most of the action takes place).

I like how you even put the quotation marks into quotation marks.

[j_dean80]

All of this information comes to you "through the ages from Mentor." Mentor could have a split personality and believe he sees / saw these things.

Or he could be completely aware that he is Morcar/Zargon and is simply afraid that the old alliances (elves, dwarves, men, and wizards) will degenerate into infighting in the absence of such a foe. So completing a prophecy leading to his own mortality. So he keeps the puppeteer in the shadows called Morcar/Zargon "alive".

The point of the HQ universe is that Zargon's only "equal" is Mentor. Mentor has lived centuries through his magic power and vast knowledge. Mentor does not quest with you and the heroes could never withstand a direct assault from Zargon. The heroes will always remain minor players to Mentor. But the heroes could sneak past his minions and toss his ring into Mount Doom because Zargon completely fails to understand what the other side means by "victory" and a willingness to sacrifice ones self for the same. But then the HQ game would be over, because you just killed your Game Master!

I think you mixed some LotR in there.

I think Mentor is a crazy, weakling wizard like Merlin on the movie Shrek. Lots of knowledge, but no common sense to do things for himself. He has to trick warriors to do his bidding for him.

[Goblin-King]

Doesn't Mentor explictially say he can't interfere directly or there will be "dire consequences".
I think he has a Gandalf/Galadriel kinda relationship with Loretome. Somehow he will become corrupted if he uses it's powers for more than knowledge.
He can use it to direct the heroes, but he can't give them all the answers. Luckily that's enough.

[thequester]

Doesn't Mentor explictially say he can't interfere directly or there will be "dire consequences".
I think he has a Gandalf/Galadriel kinda relationship with Loretome. Somehow he will become corrupted if he uses it's powers for more than knowledge.
He can use it to direct the heroes, but he can't give them all the answers. Luckily that's enough.

I'm only in my early beginnings of learning about "The Old World" from the background material available through Warhammer... but isn't it something like: at the core of it, all magic in ye Olde World is derived from Chaos, and the wizards of the Empire have to be really careful in their usage of it, or it can "spin out of control" or something... There's something about each wizard normally only studying a segment of the whole magical lore, or it would be too dangerous. Could something like that perhaps be the case for Loretome aswell? I mean... that the information in Loretome is kinda dangerous if one knows it all, and therefore (because Mentor knows it all, or atleast has access to knowing it all) it is too dangerous for himself to act. (Maybe because, knowing that he could become evil and take over the world with that power - if he started, he knows that he wouldn't be able to stop. And therefore he just gives our Heroes the information they need, so that they can help restore balance to the world... I dunno, just a thought.)

Another thing, Goblin-King, or anyone who knows the Warhammer background well... When the "Rules of Play" book calls him "Morcar, Lord of Chaos", does that mean that he is the (only, supreme) Lord of Chaos? Or just that he is a Lord of Chaos? (One that is perhaps causing particularly much trouble in the Old World at the time HQ takes place.) In the Warhammer background, can there be many "Lords" of chaos or just one?

(And on another note: it appears to me that our Emperor "Prince Magnus" might actually be Magnus the Pious from the Warhammer timeline... who if I recall correctly unified the Empire and became emperor.. meaning that HQ takes place before the "current time" of Warhammer Fantasy Battles (where Karl Franz has become the emperor)... another hint to what era HQ takes place might be the year written in the corner of the map from Return of the Witch Lord... I haven't checked this, just remember there's a year.)

[Big Bene]

The relationship of Warhammer and Heroquest "canon" has been discussed in length in here.
Ultimately, they are two franchises, and all similarities and differences have their reasons in the history of the developement and marketing of two different games by two different companies, with some of the same people involved.
If you want to place Heroquest in the Warhammer timeline, I would refer to Morkar = Morcar, the first everchoosen of chaos (so he is "just a lord of chaos", but one of the most important of them), but then the emperor would have to be Sigmar himself, whereas the term emperor as used in the HQ texts seems to refer to a well established institution.
Prince Magnus could very well be Magnus the Pious, but on the other hand, given the electoral system, we don't know if Magnus the Pious was the son of his predecessor.
So, if the world of WH and the world of HQ are somehow connected in-game (and you don't just see the similarities as a matter of real-world politics), they are alternative timelines / realities of the same world at best.

[thequester]

Thanks for the insight Big Bene! That is good reasoning, and I understand the conclusions.
It is of course a matter of personal taste whether one wants to combine the worlds of HQ and Warhammer into one, and come up with explanations where needed. Personally, I think that since the HQ world has borrowed quite a bit from the Warhammer setting, it would be ok to borrow some more And if one wants to expand on the world that HQ takes place in, there's an immense amount of Warhammer material and books one can take inspiration from, in a way that would be quite compatible with the existing HQ world. (For example, if one wants ideas and atmosphere for the place Karak Varn, where Kellar's Keep takes place, one can read "Oathbreaker" by Nick Kyme, which takes place in Karak Varn.)

There's so much material about the Old World, from Warhammer, that makes it easy to expand the setting in which one plays one's Hero Quest games, which is really interesting I think.

Whether one wants to do that, just like the choice of whether one uses house rules or not, is of course a matter of personal taste.