HQ25 monster stats and abilities #2 the Beastman

[Count Mohawk]

I think most of us have said all we want to say on the subject of the Beastman. Based on the current poll results, it looks like these monsters will either have a counter-attack ability (option H) or none at all, with the Attack score being 3 with a counter or 4 without it. (There's no one here arguing for a 3-attack vanilla Beastman, is there?)

Personally, I lean towards i/H, as does the poll (slightly), so if there's anything left to discuss, now would be the time to do it. Otherwise we should move on to the next figure.

[Anderas]

I am voting for 3 Attack with nothing.

[Count Mohawk]

I am voting for 3 Attack with nothing.

Son of a walrus!!

No, but seriously, I can't actually argue against that from a developmental standpoint. We're basically voting based on whether or nor we think Beastmen should be more or less dangerous than Fimir at this point. Both styles have their pros and cons. At the moment, the only thing I can think of that would tilt me towards a tamer Beastman would be the expected storyline: If they show up in the earlier Quests, then making them too strong means we can't have too many of them per each Quest. And again, we have the Minotaur coming soon as a stronger monster in the same class...

...Unrelated: This is why people hate committees. If the buck has no place to stop, it'll just keep getting passed by wishy-washy flip-floppers like myself.

[knightkrawler]

I am voting for 3 Attack with nothing.

Like the Count has said, there's no argument against that in itself. It's just that Fimir will play a big role, too, so that the difference to Beastmen should be bigger.
Let the furry bastards have their berserker stuff. For minotaurs, I'd go 6 Attack dice OR 5 with an attack-based special rule like double attack skulls when the M. has moved more than 4 squares before the attack or something. Daedalus, write that down for the next poll. That differentiates Beastman from Minotaur.
Not that I have major issues with any of the stats suggested and in the pole position right now. Except for the 2 AD/Bow stuff. That was specifically an idea for ungors and then we decided on just having one type of Beastman, if I recall correctly.

[Anderas]

I get that Fimir and Beastmen will appear in different styled maps like undead and orc in the original.

A Beastman which is too strong will be a match up for a highly equipped group. Where does the Minotaur fit if we have already something for the well equipped? As Boss Monster only?

The Fimir like statline, give or take a defense die, makes the Beastman a highly versatile Monster. He can be the Boss Monster for a beginner's group, the strong Monster for a medium group, and even for the endgame equipped Heroes he is still not ignorable, so he can be used there as common Monster.

The Fimir fails to do that because of the lack of models. There are just not enough of them in the Box.

A Beastman with 4 Attack dice can be an instant kill for a injured beginner Hero or the Wizard. More so if he gets to attack twice because of the counter attack ability.

If you give him four attack dice, he won't be useable too much against beginner groups, whereas strong groups will instant kill him so there the 4 dice don't make a difference.

The counter attack skill is a lot stronger than the additional die, but again, only against beginner groups. The high level groups will likely skip by the one BP threshold and instant kill him. So this skill would make him unusable with beginners groups and against strong groups it is useless, therefore reducing the usability of this beautiful model to medium groups only.

If you want him stronger than a Fimir, give him an AT die more. That reduces his use in the low end, but at least not in the high end.

But the special ability for counter attack should be reserved for Beastman Characters only. It is too restrictive.

[knightkrawler]

What is very attractive to me is that on the one hand the Kobold (1 AD/ 2 DD) brings out defensive hero play.
The Beastman, because of his berserker nature, should do the opposite (my preferred 4 AD/ 2DD) and make the heroes attack them fast.
Attack is the best defense.

In a questpack of 25 quests it depends on where you concentrate which amounts of Beastmen, whether the heroes are supposedly low, medium, or higher level.
I totally get you, but Beastmen would be most numerous in the middle quest and that would be the solution for the problem.
Minotaurs more towards the end, but not only as boss monster. I think there could be three of them in one quest, similar to Ogres in AtOH.

[cynthialee]

I am fond of rather high attack (3-5) and low defend (1-2) with a couple of body points for this monster.
A shock troop of 3-5 of them would be deadly dangerous on the attack, but once they have to defend they will drop like flies.
Such a monster can be used as a mass attack force that instills fear, but not be so powerful as to rule the board.

[Anderas]

I was searching for Beastman models yesterday. Is it correct, Mantic has no Beastmen? So the source would likely be GW, with packs of 10 Beastmen or 3 Minotaurs ?

[knightkrawler]

I was searching for Beastman models yesterday. Is it correct, Mantic has no Beastmen? So the source would likely be GW, with packs of 10 Beastmen or 3 Minotaurs ?

Yes, basically. But the new minotaurs are far too big and too bulky, too ugly and too expensive. The old ones would fit better scale-wise.
Even better, there's a Reaper Bones minotaur, dirt cheap and not ugly.

Then there's Beastmen for the games Godslayer and Darklands and from Anti Matter Games. Godslayer offers Fomorian Gut-Hackers, which are Minotaurs.
Expensive, but beautiful: minotaurs for Confrontation.
If you're not bothered by pigs instead of goats, Privateer Press' Farrow are ideal Beastmen. And they have the tharn, too, essentially barbarians changing into beastmen, with claws instead of hooves and fangs, but still sporting large horns.

The problem with searching for miniatures is that manufacturers don't use codewords and tagging. How to find the Gut-Hackers as minotaurs if you don't already know them?
These people could make infinitely more mones if they called their products the right name.

[cornixt]

I think I have four different Reaper bones beastmen, plus a couple of minotaurs that could reasonably be used as large beastmen. They all look pretty standard, decent enough sculpts.