Relativity Made Simple

[Gold Bearer]

If the path of light isn't always when it passes close to a massive object then gravity doesn't affect the path of light, obviously. When light passes close enough to the sun for it's gravity to affect the its path there's nothing happens. It's only when it passes through the sun's atmosphere and there's no light bending when it passes right by the super massive black hole at the centre of the galaxy. This is irrefutable proof that gravity doesn't alter the path of light. So yes, gravitational lensing is caused by light passing through the gasses of an entire galaxy, because there's nothing else that could be causing it. Think how much gas that light is moving through. Of course it's going to get refracted.

That's not what I said Whitebeard. Not even close.

This has nothing to do with the EU.

When I first learned learned this I was completely blown away. It's so beautiful compared to the usual misconception of time and space being separate from each other and rigid fixed entities with matter existing in them but being completely disconnected from them.

This is what this thread is supposed to be about. And it's not in any way contentious, it's accepted physics. I'm not going to let this topic go the way the other one did.

Mods:
Could you delete the last few posts including this and delete the last part of my last post so it's just my reply to knightkrawler please?

I don't know why people have such an attitude problem when it comes to this subject?

[Anderas]

We even posted a bunch of gravitational lense effect pictures, but he wouldn't acknowledge them. After all, they are coming from the world wide conspiration of scientists. They have found a club to keep the reality away from the normal people, because... because.... that's fun. The club even has members on each side of the borders of enemy states, enemy continents, enemy political systems, enemy cold war sides... even if they are enemies, they still lie in unison to us and of course, gravitational lensing doesn't exist because pictures of it are just self made in photoshop, worldwide, by every astronomer, as internship in the first half year during his study.

So i fully support Whitebeards approach here.

[el_flesh]

Wow. Look at the conspiracy going on in this thread over Gravitational Lensing which would prove Einstein right about the warping of spacetime if it weren't nuthin' but lies LIES LIES!

We're just everywhere like a horde of Orcs.

[Gold Bearer]

Anderas, every time you try to make a point on on this subject you make a complete tit of yourself, like claiming that the iron at the centre of the Earth would be enough to deflect any possible current away from the sun. I'll never forget that one. The point isn't whether or not lensing occurs, of course it does. The point is what's causing it. Light isn't bent around the sun if it doesn't pass through its atmosphere and there's no lensing at the centre of the galaxy. It's concrete proof that gravity doesn't alter the path of light.

el_flesh, go away. You're a vicious spiteful troll with deep psychological issues who tries to compensate by attempting to belittle others.

"A scientist and an engineer were at a party. An older colleague of theirs was there with his daughter. The two each asked if they could speak to her. He said it was okay, but they had to approach her by going half way across the room, then stop, then half way again and stop and proceed in that manner. The scientist determined that he would never reach her and gave up. The engineer realised that he could get close enough to talk."

[el_flesh]

Well, proof doesn't work with you. So what's left?


And no, I'm not going away. There are people in here who don't know any better, and you're filling their heads with, to be overly generous, pseudo-science in terms of EU and claiming 99% of the world's Scientists are...lying, on a massive scale for ~100 years now.

Also, I was the one who first said you have psyc issues, so...down to the level of children.

[Gold Bearer]

I can't remember but you're the one who consistently demonstrates it to be the case. If you disagree with something I've said then there's no need to be a *stanky orchid* about it. You've given nothing close to proof. You keep claiming that you have but you never post any. Light not being bent around the sun (outside of its atmosphere) or the super massive black hole at the centre of the galaxy is irrefutable evidence that light can't be affected by mass. That's proof. Claiming that light is bent by gravity despite the fact that it provably isn't shows that you're unwilling to listen to anything that disagrees with your opinion. What you post isn't proof, it's usually only vaguely relevant to the actual point.

The only one who keeps mentioning conspiracies and lying scientists is you. Some of them are dishonest but I think they're mostly just stupid.

Please try to be less confrontational. This thread isn't about what's wrong with science, it's about something that's truly beautiful and part of accepted mainstream physics.

[cornixt]

Light not being bent around the sun (outside of its atmosphere)

It happens, it's just that the Earth is too close to observe it nicely. http://www.einstein-online.info/spotlig ... ng_history

or the super massive black hole at the centre of the galaxy

http://iopscience.iop.org/0004-637X/696/1/701

is irrefutable evidence that light can't be affected by mass.

Trying to convince people here about this is as useful as debating Marxism with the local quilting group. Plus it is wrong.

[Anderas]

Gold Bearer, the difference of gravitational bending and atmosphere bending is that atmosphere isn't continuous but cloudy instead. If the position change would result from gas clouds of the sun, the star would dance around. Or, if there is enough atmosphere to have several directional effects on the way of the light, the star wouldn't be sharp anymore. We wouldn't for example see an atmospheric effect that bends entire galaxies because it is on such a huge scale that it wouldn't bend but just be unsharp to an extend we wouldn't have a chance of seeing something other than a large white spot, or not even that.

If you don't believe that an atmosphere is irregular, take a look at the weather channel tonight.

If you want a sharp image of a lensing effect as big as a galaxy cluster, you need something more regular. The gravity happen to deliver exactly that. Atmospheres not.

[Gold Bearer]

cornixt:
Well at least you're making sense. If the data is unreliable then of course the conclusion is invalid. If you read the link you posted then you know that they haven't actually detected any lensing, "In principle, this black hole, acting as a gravitational lens, is able to bend the light emitted by stars moving within its neighborhood, eventually generating secondary images."..."The best lensing candidate is represented by the star S6". That is from 2009. They haven't detected any lensing. It should be there but it isn't. As far as the sun goes, there are instruments capable of detecting the lensing that should occur outside of the sun's atmosphere but that isn't anywhere to be found either. One case of light passing close enough to a massive body and it's path not being altered is enough to completely and irrefutably prove that gravity doesn't cause lensing.

I am making the assumption that the evidence showing that there's no lensing outside of the sun's atmosphere and at the centre of the galaxy is reliable, obviously. It's not like I've seen it for myself, but if it is then it completely invalidates general relativity and everything that's based on it. That's why it's ignored.

Anderas:
We didn't have an accurate enough measurement of the light that's passing close to the sun initially to be able tell the difference. Now that we have it's been shown that the light's path, and so the position of the star in the sky isn't where it would be if it was caused by the sun's gravity. Either way, you actually get a ring rather than a white spot, although I suppose you'd get a slightly sharper ring if gravity was causing it and at a far enough distance from the sun the ring would become a spot but I doubt we could use that to detect the difference considering how close the the sun is.

The light bending effect of entire galaxy clusters is caused by diffuse gas, not irregular atmosphere's.


I hope gravity does affect the path of light, it's much more interesting than if it doesn't but that's not what the evidence shows.

I don't want to talk about this any more. That's not what this topic's about. It's about special relativity and that's not in contention, at least not by me.

My request still stands. Could all the posts after #7 be deleted please as well as my rely to mako-heart in post #7?

[knightkrawler]

You don't get to ask for deletion in cases like that.
You start a topic that has nothing to do whatsofuckingever with what we meet at this inn for, so live with the replies and the reputation you've worked so hard to get.
That's my
I'd rather have people read through the HQ rules I've posted and give their two cents there than looking at this "I'm right, you're wrong' bullcrap.
Won't happen, will it? Sad.
It sucks off energy.