How to Get the Most Variety Out of the Basic HQ dice

[cynthialee]

I would have it so a Black Shield triggers the 6 points damage but each Skull rolled subtracts 1 point from the damage. If all Black Shields are rolled it is a critical fatality. (except for end bosses, high level lieutenants of the Evil Wizard, and high power monsters)

[Anderas]

That's a typical case which is easier to deal with if you have multiple colors:

If you want that only one counts for making 6 , because you don't want your uber-evil-wizard-bone-dragon-dinosaur-vampire to die with one stroke, it's easiest to say "use 2 white dice and a green die. If the green die shows a , it counts as 6 ."

You can make rules that point out one die by color, even if it has the same amount of one sort of a symbols.


For Starquest, i and a friend were very very long thinking about the dices we could need in addition. We were not lucky with the Starquest game system, because it is largely dependent on random effects. One single good or bad round could win or lose the game. So we wanted to redesign it (we did it, in the end).
Remember, there is a white dice with 0-0-0-0-1-2 and a red dice with 0-0-0-1-2-3. Defense is simply set to a certain amount for each Monster. You can't play with Body points so much, because you have a lot of models on the table, so noting BP for each of them would be too much. Now, from game designer's point of view, all that is left is you can add or remove dice, you can introduce special rules like the ones of Count Mohawk in this thread; but the option to reroll a dice is already taken by an equipment of the original game. The problem here is, if you add a white or a red die, the weapons rapidly (immediately) get too strong for the system, and if you add a freely choose-able reroll, it's nearly like adding a die to the weapon; and many of the other things you could do with the dices are quite complicated. So, here you are really hindered if you want to invent new weapons or mechanics. My friend and I were finding a solution after long discussions and even longer calculations, by adding a die with 0-0-0-1-1-2. It sits nearly exactly in the middle of the white and the red die; so it opens up a lot of possibilities for game design.

For me, this is the main use of additional dices in Heroquest as well.
There is a certain borderline, close to 5 or 6 dice, it gets problematic to add even more because a handful of dices is a handful of dices. Rolling 6 Monster Shields for a super Boss Monster, however, is nearly like having no real defense - a beginners Hero with a Helmet has the same good defense with 3 dice. If you intend to pair your super Boss Monster with an experienced Hero who has, let's say, 4 attack and 5 defense, you'd need 10 dice or more in defense.
And here, we need to be creative. Either we write long special rules (This Monster defends on Skulls) (This Monster rerolls each defense mishap twice if it wants) or we avoid long special rules and replace the original dice with another one of a new color.
Second, the weapons spiral is quite short in Hero Quest. For attacking: 2 Dice for a start, 4 Dice for maximum, and the difference between them is LARGE. Something to add in the middle is really a nice addon.

Beginners' Short Sword: 2 Whites.
The Master's Short Sword: 1 White, 1 Black
The one handed Axe sold by the Priest of light: 2 Whites, 1 Green.
The Long Sword: 3 Whites.

Here, we have already two steps between 2 Whites and 3 Whites; without the need for any reroll/discard/roll twice choose best / anything.
Very simple, very functional. The best thing is maybe, that you still can add all the reroll/discard/roll twice choose best mechanics to represent the effects of spells, potions or other equipment's.
If you already reserve all of these special rules for the weapons itself, the choice for additional spells and potions get's unnecessary narrowed down.




I was really hesitating some months ago if i really need the colored dice.
* They keep the original HQ Look and Feel by using the same symbols
* They are even better than a "freely configurable" 2+/3+/4+/5+ System like in other wargames, because you can mix several of them in a single dice roll
* Each option you present here to keep the white dice, it get's multiplied by multiple colored dices.

For me it is decided.

[Lemmeron]

I agree this is a great thread to add more to the original dice and weapon combos, but it ends up being more complex than rolling other coloured dice and I prefer less rerolls etc.

Having said that I use both in my system.
Helmets and Bracers allow a reroll of 1 skull or 1 black shield depending on the quality of the equipment instead of adding extra combat dice in defense.
But mostly I use a combo of coloured dice to create the weapon spread I wanted without too much complication. They also step up nicely.

ie attack:
1 orange> 1 black> 1 purple> 1 white > 1 green

It depends if you want to fork out for new dice - or write extra rules for the current ones, and have more rerolls etc.
I like both, I prefer coloured dice

[slev]

Important point here is the "KISS" principal: Keep It Simple Stupid!

An item that allows the re-roll of a die or a particular die face is simple. No problem, this can be a common effect.
An item that damages/defends on non-standard results is simple but not intuitive. This should be a sutuational or uncommon effect.
An item with extensive extra rules to etermine it's damage or whatever is complex, and should be a one-shot or something for a particular quest.

This is why I favour the coloured dice for most soluions, but I also like to give re-rolls.

[knightkrawler]

Am I the only anal-retentive nostalgic person here, who uses the original dice exclusively JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE AWESOME and against all bloated argumentation for where colored dice would in fact come in handy? I'm not sorry that I think this way. It's as simple as it gets to keep one kind of combat dice and that's that. Every other die has to be assigned in type and number, sometimes several for one roll. I can't even grasp the concept that this is in any way "simple".
Slev, I like your rules and you know it. But the colored dice are the one feature that is just too much for me to handle. There it goes too many steps away from vanilla HQ and rewriting the rules myself I have never found myself even close to considering colored dice.

[Teldurn]

Am I the only anal-retentive nostalgic person here, who uses the original dice exclusively JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE AWESOME and against all bloated argumentation for where colored dice would in fact come in handy? I'm not sorry that I think this way. It's as simple as it gets to keep one kind of combat dice and that's that. Every other die has to be assigned in type and number, sometimes several for one roll. I can't even grasp the concept that this is in any way "simple".
Slev, I like your rules and you know it. But the colored dice are the one feature that is just too much for me to handle. There it goes too many steps away from vanilla HQ and rewriting the rules myself I have never found myself even close to considering colored dice.

I also only use the original whites....because they're the only ones I own.

[Count Mohawk]

Am I the only anal-retentive nostalgic person here, who uses the original dice exclusively JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE AWESOME and against all bloated argumentation for where colored dice would in fact come in handy? I'm not sorry that I think this way. It's as simple as it gets to keep one kind of combat dice and that's that. Every other die has to be assigned in type and number, sometimes several for one roll. I can't even grasp the concept that this is in any way "simple".

You might be. I won't try to persuade you to join the dark side or anything, but I personally am a complexity junkie (which probably explains why so many of my posts about a simple board game reference Excel spreadsheets). But once you have the dice, the act of rolling them and interpreting the results remains as simple as it would be for a set of white ones. It's the preparation phase that makes people tear their own ears off.

Slev, I like your rules and you know it. But the colored dice are the one feature that is just too much for me to handle. There it goes too many steps away from vanilla HQ and rewriting the rules myself I have never found myself even close to considering colored dice.

Actually, this is all Flint's fault (from the Old Scratch forum). If he hadn't started that thread 7 1/2 years ago, nobody would ever have questioned the original white combat dice as something to be changed.

Edit: Also, I find it hilarious how talk about colored dice took over a topic that was supposed to be about the glory and virtues of the basic HQ combat dice.

[slev]

Am I the only anal-retentive nostalgic person here, who uses the original dice exclusively JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE AWESOME and against all bloated argumentation for where colored dice would in fact come in handy? I'm not sorry that I think this way. It's as simple as it gets to keep one kind of combat dice and that's that. Every other die has to be assigned in type and number, sometimes several for one roll. I can't even grasp the concept that this is in any way "simple".
Slev, I like your rules and you know it. But the colored dice are the one feature that is just too much for me to handle. There it goes too many steps away from vanilla HQ and rewriting the rules myself I have never found myself even close to considering colored dice.

That's why I only use the green dice a little bit in the basic re-write.

If you don't want to use the advanced rules and the various dice, you don't have to!

[Anderas]

Kk, you are the strongest advocate I know for simplicity. And you prefer complicated rules over colored dices?

[Goblin-King]

Edit: Also, I find it hilarious how talk about colored dice took over a topic that was supposed to be about the glory and virtues of the basic HQ combat dice.

Well, everyone was pretty fast to figure out lots of awesome ways to use the white dice. From those posts you have all the equipment you could ever need for your HQ game.