Orc to Fimir jump in stats EU v US

[knightkrawler]

Simple answer: the EU version had way too many flaws.

[Gold Bearer]

There's not only the US and the EU system.
I like as well the YeOldeInn Monster Scale someone was bringing up.

1BP 2BP 3BP 1BP 2BP 3BP 4BP 5BP

I was running tests with it and it fits much more the picture i have in my mind for these types of Monsters. Plus it sperates Mummys and Chaos Warriors a little bit. I am really a fan of it.

These are my stats. I'd love them to become a YeOldeInn standard. For the US stats I'd give chaos warriors 3BP and gargoyles 5BP. The US choas warriors are scary enough as they are, that would leave them untouched and still seperate them from gargoyles a bit, gargoyles are hardly better than chaos warriors in the US rules.

Which ever one is being used, the other choas warrior stats could be doom knights to add to the undead.

My orc bosses just have better equipment. They can attack diagonally (ball and chains) and defend with three (chainmail). I think I gave my war bosses two attacks.

[QorDaq]

I have to say the whole idea of Fimir was confusing to me initially (back in 91 or so when I first got the game), coming from a D&D background everything kind of made sense except the Fimir (and Gargoyle but I kind of thought of them as low-level demons).

It's been so long since I have played at this point and I am so familiar with the HQ monsters after all of these years, that I just don't worry about it much.

As to creating "Advanced" versions of basic units, my group (mostly me as GM), experimented with various methods of upgrading a unit including all of the ideas below at one time or another:

• Raise Stat
  • (BP or Mind)

• Raise a CD
  • (Attack or Def)

• Grant ability
  • Command Actions - Allows a lower-ranked unit to be ordered to take an extra action. Usually the number of times this ability may be used is based on the "Rank" of the Advanced Unit (Generally expendable 1-3 points)
  • Diagonal Attacks - Long Sword, Staff, Spear, Flail, etc...
  • Fight-in-Ranks - Polearms and similar "Reach" attacks
  • Minor Casting - Access to one or more Scrolls for example
  • Ranged Attacks - Bows, Crossbows, Slings, etc...

Point being; I found that different situations sometimes warranted different choices depending on the nature of the quest. Just breaking the group of monsters up with slightly different types (add a halbadier or archer into a Mob for example), can negate the need to buff up another unit--though arguably adding a reach or diagonal attack is a kind of buff. In general I prefer to add an unusual or unexpected ability where possible over pure stat buffs.

Bit of a ramble there, but the question got me thinking about the ways we got around the limited monster "Types" in the game and kept things interesting by changing things up without making every new encounter a power creep for the sake of diversity/ challenge.

maj!

[mitchiemasha]

Grant ability... I'm going to say it, i always do, Goblins with MAM. Still my favourite (lil off topic but) especially if you get some low movement rolls. Chasing after the thing when it keeps getting sly digs in.

[Redav]

I've noticed that the conversion to American rules give the standard Fimir a larger step up from the standard Orc than what would seem right. The extra BP and extra Defence CD is a big jump, much bigger than just 1 of either. An extra BP is like an auto rolled shield, a huge jump. Remaining at 2D CD with an extra BP would seem better

I guess all the comments in here are relevant too (it's part reason for seeing what others do with adding shields). I think the gap's okay but I'd like to try this at some point;

1BP 2BP 3BP 1BP 2BP 3BP 4BP 5BP

I don't have a problem with two stats increasing at the same point and within the context of the three green monsters, it's probably fair. Orcs are canon fodder as much as goblins so an extra body point is good (why stick in a more 'powerful' monster when the weakest hero has a half chance of taking it out?) and the additional defence roll isn't a particularly big deal. It's a 1/6th chance of rolling so with it, there's a half chance that one shield might be rolled out of the three. That said, a body point is worth 6 x .

Grant ability... I'm going to say it, i always do, Goblins with MAM.

That's what I'm doing with the goblins and orcs although they're limited to two and one square afterwards respectively. It's to try and deal with the tank who stands at the door tactic used by the heroes and introduce the ability to take pot shots from around the corner with goblin and orc archers. The idea is to draw the heroes out or for them to come up with an effective offence.

[Anderas]

For the high BP list, of course they can't be applied blindly. If you replace aevery Monster by another with more BP, for example the castle of mystery might quickly become nasty. But if you apply the BP list with a bit of common sense and a feeling for what is too much, you can write good quests with it.

Add special abilities is one of my favorites. The only thing about is that the Monster needs to survive long enough to use it. Here comes the additional body point into play.