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HQ25 - The great TO-DO list

Brainstorming topics for the HeroQuest 25th Anniversary Quest Pack.

Re: HQ25 - The great TO-DO list

Postby Daedalus » February 13th, 2015, 1:30 am

Count Mohawk wrote:I've gone through the Spell crafting thread and collected a list of 9 magics for the Swamp Spell deck. In alphabetical order:

  • Acid Rain: This spell generates a shower of corrosive black rain. Each Hero in the same room as the caster rolls one red die. Unless a 5 or 6 is rolled, one of that Hero's weapons or armor, chosen at random, becomes rusted and useless. Not effective against Artifacts.
  • Acid Spray: This spell sprays a corrosive green mist at any Hero within Line of Sight. It will inflict 1 Body Point of damage to that Hero.
  • Cloud of Flies: This spell summons a cloud of flies to fill any room or corridor. Until the caster's next turn, Heroes in that room roll one fewer Combat Die when attacking or defending.
  • Fever: This spell will inflict a terrible fever upon one Hero within Line of Sight. He rolls one fewer Combat Die when attacking or defending. The victim may try to recover by rolling one Combat Die on each of his turns. If a white shield is rolled, he returns to normal.
  • Insect Swarm: This spell summons many biting insects to attack one Hero within Line of Sight. The insects roll three Combat Dice to attack. Heroes defend against this spell with two Combat Dice. The insects then vanish.
  • Noxious Spores: This spell fills one room or hallway with hallucinogenic spores. Until the caster's next turn, whenever a Hero attacks or defends in that hallway, he must re-roll all Combat Dice once and take the worse of the two rolls.
  • Slime: This spell causes a sticky slime to engulf any Hero's feet, binding him to the ground. That Hero becomes unable to move. The Hero may roll one red die for each of his remaining Body Points at the beginning of his turn. If a 6 is rolled, the Hero breaks free of the slime, ending the spell.
  • Slough: This spell may be cast on any one Hero. The ground beneath that Hero's feet suddenly turns into a slough! Put a Slough trap tile beneath the victim. The Hero may try to climb out of the Slough normally on his turn.
  • Summon Basilisk: This spell summons a Basilisk to do the caster's bidding, which appears on any square adjacent to the caster. The Basilisk may move and attack at once.

I tried to get a good mix of the spells suggested in the original thread. Anyone else can suggest changes if they think something really needs one, but if nobody has any such qualms I would suggest moving ahead as though these are complete.

Electing for 9 spells isn't bad, but consider that both the EQP and BQP are limited to 6 new spells for 10 themed Quests. This suggests the standard for Hero Quest: less is more. Six new spells should amply suffice for the four lower-powered swamp Quests. I wouldn't look to the original EU expansions for a general guide, as WoM was exclusively about spell casters and thus contained 4 sets of 6 spells, while its companion release, AtOH, included complex text and tokens that don't work with spell cards.

Therefore, of the 9 spells presented above, I'd drop three of the following spells: Acid Rain as a double-power Rust feels OP and is a Dawayne Agin/Flint spell--Sjeng intended our new spells to be separate. Slime should be redone or dropped as well for the same reason of borrowed-authorship separation. Fever has the same debuff as Cloud of Flies but requires tracking of a condition. Noxious Spores is yet another debuff , but it requires extra rolling and has been suggested for a trap instead. Slough requires tracking and reference of new rules that will already be available for use as a trap. Summon Basilisk doesn't feel like the published summoning spells for lower-powered Quests that strategically place a protective wall of multiple monsters as a reaction of the caster--it's simpler to include a Basilisk as part of the contents of a room.

Regardless of whether nine or six spells are used, I like most of the wording of the write-ups by Count Mohawk, except for two instances. First, I'd go with the commonly accepted grammar governing singular nouns and use "one less combat die" rather than "one fewer combat die." Second, I think the Fever/Cloud of Flies debuffs should be differentiated again, allowing for both spells to be included more meaningfully within a set of six spells.

My picks for Swamp Spells would be (including 3 reworked, new spells):

  • Cloud of Flies (Count Mohawk version)
  • Insect Swarm (Count Mohawk version)
  • Acid Spray (Count Mohawk version)
  • Will-'o-wisp (a rewording of Goblin-King's version)
  • Swamp Summons (A combination of undead summoning spells)
  • Tangling Vines (move restriction and debuff)

Will-'o-wisp
Gaseous balls of energy appear, sparking
maliciously. This spell may be cast on any
monster, including the caster. That
monster may roll two extra combat dice
when defending. The spell is broken when
the monster suffers 1 Body Point of
damage. [edited]

Swamp Summons
This spell conjures up a group of putrid
undead to attack the caster's enemies.
(Swamp Skeletons and Zombies have 1
extra Body Point. Place them adjacent to
the caster.) Roll one red die:
Roll 1 or 2 = 3 Skeletons
Roll 3 or 4 = 2 Skeletons, 1 Zombie
Roll 5 or 6 = 3 Skeletons, 2 Zombies

Tangling Vines
This spell may be cast to ensnare one Hero
in tangling roots and vines. That Hero may
not move and rolls one less combat die to
defend. The spell can be broken on a
future turn by the Hero rolling one red die
for each of his Body Points. If a 6 is rolled,
the spell ends. An adjacent Hero may also
try to end the spell using a special action.

There are a number of other spells from the 5. HQ25 - Spells, tiles, mechanics and misc topic that aren't presented here. An index of links for all spells in the topic can be found in this post.
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Re: HQ25 - The great TO-DO list

Postby Daedalus » February 18th, 2015, 10:39 am

I compiled an index composed of links for reference of this thread. It includes all relevant HQ 25 monster posts including monster stats, ability suggestions, and comments (sometimes you need to read down a post for relevant info.) Bolded entries are the six officially-chosen HQ 25 monsters, but stats and abilities sometimes vary from those of the 3. HQ25 - Choose your monsters + stats thread.

Why bother? My aim is to provide an efficient and logical means for understanding what the community has presented as a whole. This index compliments the Chaos and Reptilians indices from the 3. HQ25 - Choose your monsters + stats topic. From here, renewed discussion may follow and polls can be created with just the relevant monster links included between them so that all Inn members can have the opportunity for an informed, equal say in choosing the final form of each of the HQ 25 monsters. I'd suggest this should be done one monster poll at a time so that a more manageable set of links could be explored and discussed, then move on. Also, supplemental polls can be created to handle the more lengthy choices for monster abilities, such as with Cultists. Editors will reserve the right to make adjustments, as per the Design Document.

Chaos



Reptilians

Last edited by Daedalus on June 6th, 2016, 6:04 pm, edited 45 times in total.
Reason: tag
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Re: HQ25 - The great TO-DO list

Postby Daedalus » March 9th, 2015, 1:12 am

Count Mohawk wrote:Now for the Monsters. There are six new ones agreed on by the forum in general: Chaos Dwarves, Beastmen, Minotaurs, Chaos Cultists, Kobolds and Basilisks. Daedalus did a good writeup of potential stats which I mostly agree with (it's post #101 in the thread you linked from the OP). In that order:

From my perspective, Count Mohawk's write up is great with some thoughtful additions. I'd like to continue the discussion for further refinement, starting with the first three monsters:

1.
Count Mohawk wrote:Chaos Dwarf
Mv 6 | At 3 | De 4 | Bo 2 | Mi 3
Two or more adjacent Chaos Dwarves each roll one extra Combat Die in defense.
This is the monster people have the least amount of issues with. I don't foresee needing to change him any further.

Mind Points differ from my post, but aren't highlighted as a change. What was posted:

Daedalus wrote:Chaos Dwarf
M6 | A3 | D4 | BP2 | MP2
A Chaos Dwarf adjacent to one or more Chaos Dwarves rolls 1 extra combat die in defense.

...I'd also decrease 3 MP down to 2 MP. The Chaos Dwarves Wikipedia entry states, "Chaos Dwarfs also lack the western Dwarf's resistance to magic because of their more direct exposure to Chaos." In HQ, Mind Points best relate to magic resistance, as they are used in many spell cards. Chaos Dwarves with 3 Mind Points contradicts the Wiki entry by making them equal to Dwarves. Furthermore, Chaos Dwarves with 3 Mind Points are better set than Elves, as an Elven Warrior from HQ only has 2 Mind Points.

For me, the Warhammer fluff matters less than making a Chaos Dwarf's Mind Points equal to an Elven Warrior's score. This keeps things internally consistent withing the Hero Quest world. A Chaos Dwarf spell caster or champion should have better Mind Points, of course, but that is for the Quest Notes.

2.
Count Mohawk wrote:Beastman
Mv 7 | At 3 | De 3 | Bo 2 | Mi 2
A Beastman immediately counterattacks when an adjacent Hero reduces its Body Points to 1.

I think "adjacent" is a wise addition.

3.
Count Mohawk wrote:Minotaur
Mv 6 | At 5 | De 3 | Bo 4 | Mi 2
Instead of attacking normally, a Minotaur may attack two separate Heroes with three Combat Dice each.
I worded the ability specifically to avoid walking into the "Heroes may only defend against each monster once per turn" rule some people like to play. Incidentally, splitting attack dice evenly between two targets is a good tactic for Heroes to kill multiple monsters, but not good for Monsters because they deal less damage on average, which is why I changed the Minotaur's attack options to "hit one Hero for 5 dice" or "hit two Heroes each for 3 dice".


Earlier from post 78 of the 3. Choose your monsters + stats topic:

Daedalus wrote:Minotaur: M6 | A3+2 | D3 | BP 4 | MP 2 | Large Monster- Can attack any diagonal or adjacent square. Two attacks can be made against 1 or 2 opponents, but Hero defends once only.

Count Mohawk's solution for for dual attacks against two Heroes is perfect--much better than what I borrowed from the BQP. Similar treatment should be ret-conned to other two-weapon monsters (in other expansions) such as Warbears and the Ogre Lord, in my opinion.

As for the large-monster rule from the BQP, I'd include it to accomodate the stance of most any Minotaur figure out there--a single-square base won't cut it. Large Monster allows for diagonal attacks, something which had already been suggested for the Minotaur in this thread.
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Re: HQ25 - The great TO-DO list

Postby Daedalus » March 9th, 2015, 3:55 pm

Count Mohawk wrote:Now for the Monsters. There are six new ones agreed on by the forum in general: Chaos Dwarves, Beastmen, Minotaurs, Chaos Cultists, Kobolds and Basilisks. Daedalus did a good writeup of potential stats which I mostly agree with (it's post #101 in the thread you linked from the OP). In that order:

I've got some further ideas on developing the next two monsters:

4.
Count Mohawk wrote:Chaos Cultist
Mv 7 | At 1 | De 1 | Bo 1 | Mi 3

Daedalus wrote:Chaos Cultist
M7 | A1 | D2 | BP1 | MP3

I'm for M7, as elite Sorcerers move 8. I like D2 as a Cultist should be tougher than a small Goblin.

I think there should probably be fewer Cultist models than Kobolds to highlight the Kobolds' strength. For that reason, I'd assign Cultists 2 Defend Dice. Also, Cultists with 2 Defend Dice won't encourage door-guarding because Heroes will want to kill them quickly before they can hit from afar with their special ability much.

I guess I can agree that random spells for Cultists isn't the way to go, though I don't mind Count Mohawk's suggestion of 3 specific Chaos spells. I now am of the opinion that spell casting should remain in the domain of Quest Notes with (Cultist) Sorcerers. I've worked up some separate, alternate ability suggestions. One would suffice for the general Cultist:

  • Doom- Instead of attacking, each turn a single Cultist may direct a wave of despair upon one Hero so that he defends with only one combat die. The effect can be broken at once or on a later turn by the Hero rolling one red die for each of his Mind Points. If a 6 is rolled, the effect is broken. (The tougher the Hero, the more effective the spell. This makes a Cultist's weak attack more effective at any Quest power level and makes monster team-ups scarier.)[Perhaps less is more, with the group mechanic added in:
    Rather than attack, a single Cultist may force one Hero he can "see" to despair and defend that turn with 1 less combat die for each Cultist present. -edit]
  • Mask of Chaos- Instead of attacking, each turn a single Cultist may focus untold horror upon one Hero. The victim must reroll any successfull Attack and Defend Dice on his next turn, accepting the second result. [Perhaps a toned-down, shortened version:
    Rather than attack, a Cultist may force one Hero he can "see" to reroll his next attack or defense.-edit]
  • Corruption- Instead of attacking, each turn a single Cultist may channel profane power upon one Hero he can "see" [edit] which inflicts 1 Body Point of damage for every each other [edit] Cultist in the room or corridor. The victim may resist by immediately rolling one red die for each of his Mind Points. For each 5 or 6 rolled, the damage is reduced by 1 point. (This is a modified mash-up of GK and CM's suggestions.)
I prefer the NA use of red dice to resist abilities and spells, as this reserves combat dice solely for defense in combat or avoiding trap damage. This insures a player won't roll a Hero's Defend Dice by mistake (as a matter of habit) to resist magic effects. Maybe this isn't an issue--I dunno. Anyway, I'm used to NA styling and prefer to see it used as a whole with the NA rules. :2cents:

5.
Count Mohawk wrote:Kobold (Reptilian?)
Mv 9 | At 1 | De 2 | Bo 1 | Mi 1
A Kobold rolls one extra Combat Die when attacking a Hero for each other Kobold adjacent to that Hero.
I bumped the Kobolds up to 9 move as a minor aesthetic thing. 8 Move (or 1 Defense if you go that route) is perfectly acceptable. I suggest that only one of the Kobolds and the Cultists should have 2 Defense, though. As for the ability, note that four Kobolds moving to surround a Hero will attack with 1, 2, 3 and then 4 dice, which on average is less damaging than 4 Orcs. If the 4 Kobolds start adjacent to the same Hero, that's a different story - but that also requires either horrible attack roll luck or abject Hero stupidity.

I like the Kobold as the smaller pushover with 1 Defend Die--I expect there will sometimes be a lot of them, and they will need to be cleared quickly for good game flow and more stable combat results. Also, I think 1 Defend Die works better to invite a quick-kill strategy over a boring door-guard.

The EU rules state, "He [the evil wizard player] moves each monster in turn," which insures each monster moves and attacks separately. Unfortunately, the NA rules lack such specificity. With the NA rules, it is possible that when Zargon "moves every monster on the gameboard" 4 Kobolds in a room could first surround a Hero. Then, "...each monster may...attack," all with 4 Attack Dice in the same initial turn. Some rewording of the abilily is in order to guarantee the EU-guided intent within both rulesets. My new Kobold:

Kobold
    Mv:8 At:1 De:1 BP:1 MP:1, Moving in turn, each Kobold attacking a Hero rolls one extra combat die for every other Kobold adjacent to that Hero.
Here's an option that both maintains the damage cap a little below that of 4 Orcs (avoiding 4x4 AD attacks--too much for little guys) and could work with a Summon Kobolds spell without over-powering it:

    An attacking Kobold rolls one extra combat die for each Kobold that is adjacent to and has already attacked the defending Hero that turn.
1st Kobold: 1 AD, 2nd Kobold: 2 AD, 3rd Kobold: 3 AD, 4th Kobold: 4 AD. Optionally add Kobolds with spears and the fifth, sixth, seventh, and eighth Kobolds each get 5 AD for powerful Heroes. I just noticed this is similar to what Goblin-King had come up with, but with a lower damage cap.[ -edit]
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Re: HQ25 - The great TO-DO list

Postby cynthialee » March 9th, 2015, 9:15 pm

I really like the Kobolds getting extra dice for having friends join the battle. Limit should be a max of 4 dice. Only 4 Kobolds at a time can surround a hero. Sure you can have the 4 diagonal squares filled but they can't exactly help in the fight.
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
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Re: HQ25 - The great TO-DO list

Postby Daedalus » March 11th, 2015, 12:08 pm

The way the Kobold ability is currently worded above, 4 Attack Dice would generally be the cap for a single attack. If Kobolds with spears were to be added in the Quest Notes, then the cap would increase to 5 Attack Dice. This is an exception to the regular functioning of the ability, so it probably is okay as it stands.

I don't think the ability needs to be reworded to account for the possibility of diagonal spear attacks, as there is another way to handle this. To maintain a 4 Attack Dice limit for any one Kobold attack, the Quest Notes could simply state diagonal spear attacks don't benefit from the ability. This kind of makes sense since regular Kobold attacks don't benefit from diagonal attacks.

If either a 5 Attack Dice cap or a Quest Notes exception isn't acceptable, the the ability should be amended to this:

    Moving in turn, each Kobold attacking a Hero from an adjacent square rolls one extra combat die for every other Kobold adjacent to that Hero.
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Re: HQ25 - The great TO-DO list

Postby Daedalus » March 12th, 2015, 1:17 am

Count Mohawk wrote:Now for the Monsters. There are six new ones agreed on by the forum in general: Chaos Dwarves, Beastmen, Minotaurs, Chaos Cultists, Kobolds and Basilisks. Daedalus did a good writeup of potential stats which I mostly agree with (it's post #101 in the thread you linked from the OP). In that order:

Finally, I have some ideas and comments for the problematic Basilisk:

6.
Count Mohawk wrote:Basilisk
Mv 8 | At 3 | De 4 | Bo 3 | Mi 2
A Basilisk may attack any Hero it can "see" with its petrifying gaze, rolling 3 Combat Dice to attack. Heroes defend using Combat Dice equal to their Mind Points. The victim loses 1 Mind Point for each undefended skull, and skips his next turn if any Mind Points were lost. Heroes reduced to 0 Mind Points this way are turned to stone.
I am a little concerned that the Basilisk may be able to stone the Barbarian a little too easily. With 3 dice against 2, the Hero will lose 1 Mind Point about 35% of the time and both Mind Points about 28% of the time. Additional input on this is welcome. My suggestion would be to flip the Basilisk's Attack and Defense dice so the Evil Wizard player attacks normally more often, which also conveniently makes it so all 6 monsters have different stat lines. (Or we could invent a "Potion of Unstone" that restores 1-2 Mind Points and cures stoning.)

I'd agree that petrification as written above is unfair for the Dwarf and Barbarian who can be killed in 1 turn, but there is more. It permanently removes a Hero's equipment (more punishing than an Ice Gremlin) and requires a new potion to deal with it. Also, its lethality requires special scripting with the "bad end" called for in an early Quest by TMU and MrBigB.

A bigger issue with the petrification rule as written is that it reduces the very stat needed to defend against it. The more a Hero's Mind Points are reduced, the more likely it is the Hero will be damaged even more. This is equivalent to lowering a Hero's Defend Dice each time his Body Points are reduced.

Count Mohawk wrote:
Goblin-King wrote:Should the basilisk's gaze perhaps simply stun the target for 1 round? You get hit, you loose your turn. No MP reduction, just a stun.
Loosing the barbarian for a turn is a heavy loss, but he won't get insta killed. And we don't have to get into the zero MP in-shock-rules.

I think that works better; thanks for the suggestion! We can reword the ability as:
A Basilisk may attack any Hero it can "see" with its petrifying gaze, rolling 3 Combat Dice to attack. Heroes defend using Combat Dice equal to their Mind Points. If the Basilisk scores one or more undefended skulls, its victim must skip his next turn.
I know someone was working on a Quest where the Heroes run afoul of two Basilisks and get stoned and captured. Although the change Goblin-King suggested doesn't allow for a non-scripted "bad end", an easy scripted end would be that the Heroes have never seen a Basilisk before, are therefore unprepared and thus get stoned immediately as soon as Zargon/Morcar's turn starts.
Other possible minor changes to the Basilisk would be to pin the strength of its gaze to its own Mind Point count (and bump its MP to 3 or 4 to compensate), or flip over its Attack and Defend scores to 4/3 instead of 3/4.

Turning to stone can be overkill, but I think just losing a turn limits the Basilisk too much as it can't effectively use its ability and attack alone. This dependence on others is more fitting for Cultists, not a lizard-like beast. I'd say a nonlethal, potentially longer-lasting paralyzing effect would work better, but petrification at least needs some tweaking. So here's some alternative abilities with different paralyzing and petrification effects:

  • Instead of attacking normally, a Basilisk may paralyze any one Hero it can "see" with its gaze. A paralyzed Hero is unable to move, attack, or defend. The effect can be broken at once or on a future turn by the victim rolling one red die for each of his Mind Points. If a 6 is rolled, the Hero frees himself. (This is a targeted Cloud of Chaos effect. A Hero is killed through vulnerability to loss of Body Point loss rather than Mind Points, providing a much-needed buffer for the Barbarian and Dwarf that can be healed.)
  • A Basilisk attacks with its petrifying gaze. It rolls 3 combat dice against any one Hero it can "see." The Hero rolls one red die for each of his Mind Points. Body Point damage is reduced by 1 point for each 5 or 6 rolled, but a victim loses his next turn if any points are lost. A Hero and his equipment are turned to stone if the Hero's Body Points are reduced to zero from this attack and he isn't immediately healed. Does not affect artifacts. (This simplifies the Basilisk attack to just a gaze while providing a Body Point buffer for the Barbarian and Dwarf. Other Heroes are threatened more evenly with petrification, which healing can put off.
  • Instead of attacking normally, a Basilisk may attempt to paralyze any one Hero it can "see", inflicting 2 Mind Points of damage. The Hero immediately rolls two red dice. For each 5 or 6 rolled, the damage is reduced by one point. The victim unable to move, attack, or defend on his next turn if any points are lost, though restoring them immediately frees the Hero. If a Hero's Mind Points are reduced to zero, he is removed from the Quest. (Changing the reduction dice to a standard two red dice changes the feel of paralyzing to more of a physical effect, leaving the Wizard and Elf a bit more vulnerable. A Potion of Restoration or Psychic Recovery scroll can restore lost Mind Points, as does recovery between Quests. Similar to Bellthor's poisonous breath in RotWL, this ability requires less scripting for a desired "bad end.")
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Re: HQ25 - The great TO-DO list

Postby Sjeng » March 12th, 2015, 5:06 pm

Can I just express my gratitude for keeping this thing going daedalus? I've slacked off SO badly... Occupied by so many things lately.
Still want to do those graanskin quests. Keep it up!!!
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Re: HQ25 - The great TO-DO list

Postby Daedalus » March 13th, 2015, 12:48 pm

Count Mohawk wrote:Chaos Dwarf
Mv 6 | At 3 | De 4 | Bo 2 | Mi 3
Two or more adjacent Chaos Dwarves each roll one extra Combat Die in defense.
This is the monster people have the least amount of issues with. I don't foresee needing to change him any further.

I had recently discovered a possible problem with this ability shown in the diagram below. The Barbarian is at a doorway fighting 4 Chaos Dwarves at positions 1-4 with a longsword (may attack diagonally):
                  |_|_|_|2|
                  |_|_|_|1|
                  |4|3|B|_|
                  |_|_|_|_|
The Chaos Dwarves at postions 1 and 3 both get to roll an extra combat die in defense, which seems strange to me considering the placement of the supporting Chaos Dwarves at positions 2 and 4. I always thought of the ability working like a shield wall manuever, but I can't see Chaos Dwarves being very useful so far removed from a Hero's attack.

If this inconsistency with the ability is deemed worth fixing, I'd reword it this way:

    Two adjacent Chaos Dwarves that are both visible to a Hero each roll one extra Combat Die in defense against that Hero's attack.
[Perhaps this suits better:

    Adjacent Chaos Dwarfs each roll 1 extra combat die in defense against any attacker they both can see.
The upside is this alternate ability fits certain blocked-combats more intuitively while accommodating ranged combat, as well. The downside is a LOS check is needed. -edit]
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Re: HQ25 - The great TO-DO list

Postby cynthialee » March 13th, 2015, 2:03 pm

Huh, I had just assumed that such a situation only applied to the four squares around the hero. I wouldn't even have thought in the cited scenario that the dwarves would get any bonus.
But clarification is needed in this game world of twinks.
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
~Sun Tsu The art of War~


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