GM vs Overpowered Heroes

[Goblin-King]

The Dungeon Master isn't a referee. He's not playing to win, he's telling the story.

Aren't you the one who complained people treated HQ like D&D?

[Anderas]

The point with the challenging objective is not always obvious.
A Goblin deals in average .27 damage to a Hero with AT 2 and DE 2, who enters the room.

If you have a Hero with AT 4 and DE 5 (which is not uncommon - Battle Axe, Chainmail, Helmet); you need a monster with AT 5, DE 3, BP 1 to do equally much damage like the Goblin used to deal; or an Ork with AT 3, DE 2 and 2BP. And don't forget, a Goblin waiting in a room is NOT dangerous. What's wrong if a Monster with AT5, DE3 is not dangerous anymore?

An Ork, who deals .675 damage to a basic 2/2 Hero, needs to be replaced by an US Chaos Warrior to provide an equal threat to a 4/5 Hero.

This is very well possible, but the problem is that you shouldn't put the same amount of Chaos Warriors on the table like you used to put Orks.

A WAY easier possibility to achieve the "challenging" is to just an extra Fimir per potion of Healing in every room (and enough Goblins to "talk" with the rest of the group), until there is none or maximum 1 potion of healing left. The rest of the adventure may be played according to plan.
You could even formalize it as rule if you don't want the responsibility.

[mitchiemasha]

I'm game for anything that has more monsters over the same amount but stronger monster. Especially more goblins, over run by the slippery lil sh!ts is a fun situation to be in. KILL FRENZY!

[mitchiemasha]

Why keep track of BP at all? Why not just put the board away and read them a story.

Lol! Read them a story. Oh dear, my sides are splitting!!!

[chaoticprime]

The Dungeon Master isn't a referee. He's not playing to win, he's telling the story.

Aren't you the one who complained people treated HQ like D&D?

I was literally referring to D&D. Not Heroquest. The latter shouldn't be run anything like the former. The Evil Wizard player is not a Dungeon Master.

[Goblin-King]

I see... I believe the terms DM, GM and EWP is used pretty interchangeably around here; that's why. But your comment makes sense now.

But isn't changing the quest on the fly venturing pretty far into DM territory?
You are definitely not a player out to win if you can just add stuff.

[chaoticprime]

I see... I believe the terms DM, GM and EWP is used pretty interchangeably around here; that's why. But your comment makes sense now.

But isn't changing the quest on the fly venturing pretty far into DM territory?
You are definitely not a player out to win if you can just add stuff.

The rules encourages the Evil Wizard to make personal changes. In fact, its almost integral to do so with some Quests--I think this is indicated by how The Trial has 25% more enemies than the average Quest in the original 14. I think the Trial is as much a trial for the EW as with the Heroes--it gives you an idea of how hard the game is supposed to actually be (though that doesn't mean its necessary to use every single piece in the game).

I am suggesting nothing more fiendish or complicated than stocking per-Quest empty rooms with some monsters. Most Quests have plenty of totally empty rooms that were probably intended for this purpose--when you think about it doesn't it seem like fan-made Quests have far less frequency for empty rooms?

I have changed the locations of artifacts because the players declared that they remembered where it was supposed to be. If the heroes go into the game with that kind of intelligence, the EW doesn't stand much of a chance against them to win.

[knightkrawler]

I see... I believe the terms DM, GM and EWP is used pretty interchangeably around here.

They shouldn't. Let's refer to the Evil Wizard player as exactly that or as Zargon or Morcar. It's really not a Dungeon Master. Gamemaster would be OK because of its sheer lexicality, but really it's not because of the connotation that it's synonymous to Dungeon Master and similar terms.

I always talk about being Morcar and "to morcar" is even a verb I've come up with.

[Jafazo]

I noticed new subjects springing up within this discussion and decided to go ahead and toss in my own opinion / perspective on things. As usually, I can't just provide a half assed response... I have to get down and detailed so here it comes.

Do we refer to the out of game player as DM, GM, Zargon, or Morcar? Get over it. Your answer is, there are TWO Zargons or TWO Morcars, did you know that? Allow me to explain...

Hero Quests reference to "The storyteller" is Morcar in one version, Zargon in another... both are right. MODERN times refer to the storyteller as the Dungeon Master, or Game Master. The difference between a DM or GM and Zargon or Morcar is that Zargon or Morcar is ACKNOWLEDGED within HQ's dialogue from a characters point of view, so your barbarian, wizard, elf and dwarf KNOW that Zargon exists. In Dungeons & Dragons, you never read quest dialogue that reference the "Game Master" or "Dungeon Master" so the characters don't KNOW the DM or GM exists.

At this point we need to make one distinctive observation and that is that the game... is NOT real. YOU are. This is the foundation between references to yourself as Zargon, the DM or GM and Zargon, the in-game character. Since HQ references Zargon or Morcar as both, an in-game character AND an out of game character, we need to find out which one we are (the storyteller), and if you can't figure that out, you have psychological issues and have probably been LARP'ing too long.

When you read your HQ rulebook, it actually contains terms like, "Zargon - Setting Up The Game" and "How Zargon Uses this Rulebook". These references are for Zargon, the out of game entity... aka, you, aka the GM or DM. Guess what? The in-game CHARACTER, Zargon, doesn't have a rulebook on hand that he whips out and references before trying to foil the heroes. It's not like the in-game character Zargon is saying stuff like, "I'll put three Orcs here and a little -B- so I remember they're special." So technically, in my opinion, there are two Zargon-types, which HQ blended by similar term effectively sowing confusion, but remember... it's an old game so we can pardon this. You can address yourself as Zargon, a DM, a GM, it's all valid. Just as long as you remember that YOU, are not the in-game character Zargon.

As for whether or not the GM should be trying to kill the heroes, or playing to keep them alive and keep the game going... I have a pretty interesting outlook on this. Basically, to me, opinionated people who claim to PREFER certain types of GM's, are like addicted crack heads in denial and I'll explain. HQ is the drug, you're the crack head, and you're in denial because you CLAIM you like a certain something, yet you probably do nothing about it when you get what you don't like. Discussing this now, is the equivalent of an AA meeting to these people. How many of you players, at the start of ANY quest or adventure to ANY role playing game, stopped and asked the GM, "Ok so before we get started, what kind of GM are you? I might not want to play if you're constantly going to be saving my ass." Likewise, the GM never tells his/her players. Players might MENTION their preference now and again, but they never enforce their preference. As a side-note, I'm sure the board will fill up with people suddenly CLAIMING they do this but I don't buy it because not ONCE have I ever, not only witnessed this done, but even read or HEARD about an individual who interrogates his DM before gameplay and who has walked away from a game because their GM said, "I'll definitely be throwing potions of healing at you if you're dying." Save it crackhead, I don't buy it. You like what your dealers sell and you'll take it in any way shape or form you can get it.

You see, a player might MENTION his/her preference during an off-handed discussion, like on a forum board, but I've never known or met a player who actively enforces his preference. To them, ignorance is bliss. They don't know if the GM is trying to kill them, or save them, and they like not knowing... that makes it exciting and is the way it SHOULD be in my opinion. One reason why Players should NEVER know what the GM's play style is because, in my opinion, that play style should be changing constantly... and THAT'S the worst and most dangerous GM, who in turn, tends to be the most exciting to play for.

So do I personally throw in a few healing potions if the heroes health tends to be running low? Do I put down 2 goblins instead of the 4 chaos warriors in the next room because the heroes have exhausted their resources? I do my best to stay out of it, but sometimes, it might be necessary. It might be necessary because 'I' decide, it might be necessary, not because I can provide some reason we can all unanimously agree qualifies as Players needing a friendly little push. I don't actively try to save anyone's ass though. I only help in extreme cases, like if one of my Players suffers a heart attack at the table and falls to the floor during a stroke. Because of that, the heroes would be down one teammate, so if the encounter in the next room is designed for four, I might adjust it accordingly until my fourth person recovers from his heart attack or dies.

[knightkrawler]

Do we refer to the out of game player as DM, GM, Zargon, or Morcar? Get over it. Your answer is, there are TWO Zargons or TWO Morcars, did you know that? Allow me to explain...

We allow you. Because none of us seems to know the really important stuff. But did you read my post through to the intent that I would like to see people in the forums use Morcar or Zargon for the Evil Wizard player in HeroQuest, to safely grant others NOT to mistake what they are talking about for the Dungeon Master in another game?
I was explicitly referring to the misunderstanding between chaoticprime (who didn't mention a game with Dungeon Master) and Goblin-King (who got confused because people keep referring to the EWP as DM or GM). That's all. Nothing more to it and nothing to get over.