Playing Quest Packs as a Series

[knightkrawler]

That makes the most sense, yeah.
Shuffling after a good card is drawn that doesn't go back into the deck is unnecessary. It doesn't change a thing.
I have always done it anyway because else I'll also forget shuffling when it is necessary.

[slev]

If there was no rule about it and I had to make one up it would be:

• before the game starts, shuffle the treasure cards
• if a positive card is drawn do not return it to the treasure card pile and don't shuffle
• if a negative card is drawn return it to the treasure card pile and shuffle

That's what we always did!

[Redav]

The question is if the deck need be shuffled each draw or only at the start of the game and when bad cards are returned to it.

The updated EU and NA rules state that the deck is shuffled whenever a card is drawn.

Ultimatley, it makes little difference to the odds.

It makes an ever changing difference to the odds. The odds of getting a bad card increase every time you draw a good card. Ultimately you will only draw bad cards.

It would make no difference if both good and bad cards were added back into the deck

[slev]

It makes an ever changing difference to the odds. The odds of getting a bad card increase every time you draw a good card. Ultimately you will only draw bad cards.

It would make no difference if both good and bad cards were added back into the deck

To be clear, I ment that the odds are the same if you reshuffle the deck every time or only when returning bad bad card to the deck.

[Redav]

That doesn't make it any clearer, sorry.

If you draw cards and none are returned, it doesn't matter if you shuffle or not as the odds don't change (i.e. there's still the same ratio of good vs bad)
If you draw cards and good and bad are returned, it doesn't matter if you shuffle or not as the odds don't change (i.e. there's still the same ratio of good vs bad)
If you draw cards and only good or only bad are returned, it does matter if you shuffle as the odds change (i.e. ratio changes one way or the other)

Revised EU and NA rules state that good are not returned and bad are returned. This means that every time you draw a card, the ratio of good cards against bad cards reduces.

[knightkrawler]

That doesn't make it any clearer, sorry.

If you draw cards and none are returned, it doesn't matter if you shuffle or not as the odds don't change (i.e. there's still the same ratio of good vs bad)
If you draw cards and good and bad are returned, it doesn't matter if you shuffle or not as the odds don't change (i.e. there's still the same ratio of good vs bad)
If you draw cards and only good or only bad are returned, it does matter if you shuffle as the odds change (i.e. ratio changes one way or the other)

Revised EU and NA rules state that good are not returned and bad are returned. This means that every time you draw a card, the ratio of good cards against bad cards reduces.

The major flaw with your second point is: Where do you put a card that goes back into the deck?
The players will memorize the approximate position of bad cards and high gold coin values.
Worse, if those cards are put to the bottom, the players simply count cards, as Slev has already mentioned. So it does matter very much if you shuffle or not. Not concerning the odds, of course.
In points 1 and 3, you're right.

[slev]

My contention is not that the odds are the same if you shuffle or not when returning the card.

My contention is that, if you shuffle when returning a bad card, further shuffling before each draw makes no statistical difference to the draw results.

[Redav]

I think I managed to misread one of the earlier statements. I get where you're coming from now. Confusion averted

[slev]

Excellent!

[Daedalus]

The question here is about more than shuffling the bad cards back in though.

That bad cards are shuffled back in is non-controversial I feel. The question is if the deck need be shuffled each draw or only at the start of the game and when bad cards are returned to it.

Ultimatley, it makes little difference to the odds.

True about the odds. I should mention I refered to the First Edition rules in my quote--not the best choice, unfortunately. The Second Edition (British) EU rules from p.14 are more clear regarding shuffling after returning a negative Treasure Card, and thus noncontroversial about when to shuffle:

Some of the treasure cards are of gold or jewels. The character player who finds
one of these should record the value of the treasure on his character sheet. The
card is then discarded. It is not retruned to the treasure card pile.

Other treasure cards show traps or wandering monsters. These cards should be
read out and the instructions followed immediately. Trap cards and wandering
monster cards are returned to the treasure card pile. The treasure card pile is
then shuffled before another treasure card is taken.

According to this and the rules for setting up the game, shuffling treasure cards is only done at the start of the game and after returning a negative treasure card. Shuffling isn't meant to be done automatically with each draw, just as you've played it, Slev. Thanks for bringing it up.