WIZARDS OF MORCAR discussion

[TheLastChaosWarrior]

I don't see the Bards spells as spells as such. Really, they are skills. They are called Healing song, Inspiring tale, and sleep, and to me he is achieving these by singing or playing music. Not using magic.

[HispaZargon]

Just wondering right now which ones of these more-than-1-year-ago old rumors about WoZ/M could finally become actual "leaks"...

BEWARE, POSIBLE SPOILERS AHEAD

- The title Wizards of Zargon is just an assumption by now, then title not fully confirmed yet.

- It is planned to be released in 2025.

- The quest configuration will be the following one: 3 solo quests + 5 quests from WoM + 2 extra quests with a final battle against Zargon.

- It will include a Wizard Hero miniature.

- It will include a Zargon miniature.

[LucaRocks]

I think that those rumors are true with the exception that everything reported about "Zargon" will be for Morcar instead.

I, for one, would not be averse to Morcar being a double base. Maybe he's an Ogre Shaman lol! The FH was the only monster that could get physical or cast spells. So it would be cool if they had another character like that.

I saw Kurgan talking about the color of the evil wizard minis. Personally, I think they will make them faction appropriate colors. The Orc will be green, the Necromancer will be white. One of the wizards will be grey. Maybe the last one will be "race swapped" for an elf and use that blue color. Or something like that. And I think that one of them will definitely be a female. If I had to guess, I think the storm master will become and Elf female. Elf are usually the ones close to nature. Just for variety. I firmly believe they will keep the "Gandalf" wizard the exact same and make him grey.

I really hope (unrealistically) that the mercenaries will be low level wizards for hire. Just to be more in keeping with the theme. I mean, if they add more magical enemies, it only makes senee that regular sword and crossbow mercenaries wouldn't cut it. No stat changes but just give them magical items to make them do the same things... Wand (crossbow), crystal ball (scout), magic spear (halberdier), and fire sword (swordsman). I guess they could also do these types of guys if they ever do the Wizard expansion.

[lestodante]

I don't think they will change things that much... (and sincerely I hope they will not)
They do not have sprue issues as in the past years, so they can give each miniature a different color if they want to.
@LucaRocks, sincerely I hope they will not read your post nor take any inspiration from it Swapping the Strom Master to a female Elf?? they already sacrificed our loved male Elf for a female Elf in plate armor, I think that was enough!
Morcar as an Ogre Shaman...? Please do not give odd suggestions to Hasbro, they already gave us an Orc Bard hero and a Warlock kid and a confusing double attack rule. I think it was enough to make a mess.
People wish to play Wizards of Morcar, not another questpack. So an improvement (bug fixing) as they did in the Ogre pack is very welcome, but changes mentioned above will result in a completely different questpack.

[Kurgan]

There are so many opportunities if they do a Wizard quest pack (whether 100% new, based loosely on the old draft notes, or an outright attempt to fix it as Lucapaschi & co. are doing on the fan side). They don't have to do all that stuff in WOM remake. However, if they did use those drafts as inspiration to fill in the remaining material (to fill it out to a 10+ quest booklet), I'd be okay with that. But yes, keep as much as the original as possible, only making changes when required to fix broken gameplay or meet their legal obligations to the GWS agreement.

If they're going to do more sex swapping, I think it should be with the mercenaries, or in brand new added creatures, not making the Wizards female. We already have prominent female villain sculpts in the form of Sinestra the elven archmage (MOTM), Magrian the wraith (ROTDM; here we can also list the recurring specters and assassins which are all female), and the female Dread Sorcerer (subs in for Kessandria, the lieutenant of the Witch Lord... as well as the Spirit Queen in SQT, the swamp hag for when CoPD comes out, etc). And female Ogres in ATOH... here's a golden opportunity to give us, as previously suggested, the female crossbowmen and swordsmen (alongside male Halberderiers and Scouts this time)...

I have a feeling they won't, but it would be SO GREAT if they gave us red mercs (if they want to make it a different shade of red from the previous heroes and animals, that's fine, but nothing wrong with it being straight up the same) and dark blue sorcerers. I'm getting tired of gray...

The bases could be any dark color, but making them dark blue or black would be just fine (maybe they'll make the whole thing plastic... maybe use translucent colors for the fire and water walls and just gray for the stone?).

[wallydubbs]

This was my fear on why they might just scrap the project altogether. As far as I know there's never been a full confirmation on whether they'd actually remake Wizard's of Morcar, although it has merely been alluded to.

There are a lot of things Wizard's of Morcar would need to change to make it compatible with North American HeroQuest:
Potion of Magical Aptitude is redundant thanks to the Wand of Magic; selling back an item rule conflicts with the Potion of Alchemy; Potions of Magic Resistance seems to encapsulates Potion of Fire Resistance, so it makes you wonder to why even bother with that; the Spells of Darkness, Detection and Protection don't compare to the Elemental Spells; numerous spells held by the Dread Sorcerers would need to be renamed (As would Cloak of Shadows) or at least change effects as they seem to share names with Dread Spells.

There's so many things they'd need to change or rethink and part of me worries they just won't give a damn about putting in the work. I'm on page with you guys and wouldn't mind seeing the expansions restored to its original version, I can work with that. It would be really unfortunate if they didn't remake this one

[Zenithfleet]

Guys, whatever you do with this spell, can you please rename it properly to Treasure Hoard? We have an ogre horde in HQ but not a treasure horde. Now happy treasure hoarding in the new year!

Actually, the original spell from 1991 WoM was named Treasure Horde: https://english.yeoldeinn.com/downloads ... ection.pdf
Again the original UK edition had a Treasure Horde card (100 gold coins) in the Treasure deck (page 3): https://english.yeoldeinn.com/downloads ... easure.pdf
There is also one Treasure card (300 gold coins) in the Elf Quest Pack named Treasure Hoard.
It is possible UK and US spellings are different such as Armor and Armour, or Canceled and Cancelled.

No, the correct spelling in both US and UK English is 'hoard' for an accumulation of treasure or other stuff, and 'horde' for a large group of living things. A treasure hoard, but an ogre horde.

UK HeroQuest got it wrong... twice! The US Elf Quest Pack got it right.

It's like the common confusion between 'their', 'there' and 'they're'.

Sorry, couldn't let that one slide.

[Kurgan]

This was my fear on why they might just scrap the project altogether. As far as I know there's never been a full confirmation on whether they'd actually remake Wizard's of Morcar, although it has merely been alluded to.

There's never been a store "leak" for HeroQuest thus far that has been inaccurate in terms of the product actually coming out. I think given the development cycles (about 18 months, three projects lined up in various stages) they've told us in the past, by the time a store is going to put up a listing, it's basically finished, and it'd be too late to cancel it at that point. I'm agreeing with everyone that there's an expectation that this will come out, even if we knew nothing about any store pages or industry leaks (knowing about those seals it for me that it's real and coming soon, not just a wish or rumor), as it really is the last box of new content in plastic that was offered back in the day that has yet to be remade (other than Advanced HeroQuest, which is really its own game... I wonder if GWS signed over the rights to that to Hasbro as well? Encarmine mentioned he was a big fan of that game, and also confirmed they "have everything" and the rights to it all... but yes, different game entirely).

Frozen Horror was known beforehand this way, so was ATOH remake, JoD, Path of the Wandering Monk, SQT, PoT... so I have no doubt whatsoever that WOM is coming out. And we've seen what happens to projects they've invested too much in that get "pulled" (HeroScape: Age of Annihilation).

Remember there was doubt also with adapting ATOH to the NA style rules, but it happened. Was it perfect, 100% to everyone's satisfaction in all aspects? No, but it seems to have hit close enough that it was a hit, and now even Target is selling it on their website. So in 4-10 months we'll see it. Who knows, maybe it'll even be announced at one of the upcoming conventions (we've got Cannes Games Festival to kick things off in 8 days!).

Speaking of ATOH, I remember I had my partial "panic" that they were going to cancel the whole thing, that there was a chance anyway. It was after the layoffs so I felt like maybe, just maybe this was going to be the last one and they were going to scale things back (people went on to wonder the same thing about Jungles of Delthrak), especially if it flopped. But turns out (thankfully) I was completely wrong. So now I have faith... I'm a believer again! Short of Hasbro lighting themselves on fire, it's coming out, and relatively soon.

There are a lot of things Wizard's of Morcar would need to change to make it compatible with North American HeroQuest:
Potion of Magical Aptitude is redundant thanks to the Wand of Magic; selling back an item rule conflicts with the Potion of Alchemy; Potions of Magic Resistance seems to encapsulates Potion of Fire Resistance, so it makes you wonder to why even bother with that; the Spells of Darkness, Detection and Protection don't compare to the Elemental Spells; numerous spells held by the Dread Sorcerers would need to be renamed (As would Cloak of Shadows) or at least change effects as they seem to share names with Dread Spells.

I don't see these as insurmountable at all. WOM is even shorter than ATOH, so it shouldn't be any more challenging to integrate these. As before, we already have a model in Phoenix's conversion (as we saw, AH chose not to increase the BP of the sorcerers while Phoenix did... while AH beefed up the BP of their Ogres though also while nerfing their defense). The disarming of some traps was kept within the EU conventions, but otherwise some of the things that were expected (like ditching the Ogre BP track and switching the spell tokens to cards) was done.

The Potion of Magical Aptitude may seem redundant at first, but then you realize there is only one Wand of Magic (yes, in theory someone might own both the Game System AND First Light, which is the only other place it is officially found, in both cases late in the campaign). This means that if the Wizard has it, the Elf doesn't (or vice versa). In addition to that we now have new heroes that use spells (Warlock, Druid, Bard) so this could be an opportunity for them to get that perk as well, at least for a single quest.

Frozen Horror's "Magic Resistance" potions will likely be used up even if you had them (AH isn't assuming you own every expansion) and WOM's Magic Resistance is more powerful, negating ALL SPELL EFFECTS against the player, not merely damage, which can come in handy. Fire Resistance is merely a weaker version. Can you ever have enough of these? Also something I just realized is that Fire Resistance is a preventative potion... you use it BEFORE you are hit with the fire based spell or fire burst trap, while Magic Resistance can be used at the time you are being hit (whether it also applies to Fire Burst traps is not stated, but Zargon could rule on that). Then again, I'm not saying tweaks couldn't be made here as there's only one explicit fire based chaos spell among the 24 you could encounter, so it'll mostly be used to avoid the Fire Burst trap damage, though of course Zargon could make other rulings (is lightning "fire based"? what about "skulls of doom"?).

There's so many things they'd need to change or rethink and part of me worries they just won't give a damn about putting in the work. I'm on page with you guys and wouldn't mind seeing the expansions restored to its original version, I can work with that. It would be really unfortunate if they didn't remake this one

They care enough to keep the parts they think people want unchanged (or there's no consensus on how they change it, so they leave it up to the fans), while also altering the names of things to avoid the appearance of redundancy. I could see them for example changing "Potion of Magic Resistance" to "Potion of Resistance" or "Potion of Magical Defense," "Nullification Potion," or something like that. Same with some of the Sorcerer "dread" spells... name changes are no big deal. That's like a 5 minute brain storming session.

As far as the three new HERO spell classes, that to me is the biggest amount of work for them (other than writing 5 new quests that seem to fit... recall that the new quests in ATOH had nothing really to do with the classic edition, it was a whole new game mode, so they put in a ton of effort there!), but I think we've seen that fans have come up with plenty of good suggestions over the years (heck, most of the topics in our forums on this pack are complaints about those spells or suggestions on how to improve them!), such that they would become desirable alternatives. I remember when I was skeptical of the Elf spells, but really so long as the hero has a few healing potions stashed, there's no issue. Fans often talk about how they wish they could change the spells of the new casting heroes (Bard, Druid, Warlock) this could be another opportunity for some homebrew, if desired.

Since WOM doesn't seem to have as strong a nostalgic view as even ATOH, I think they will feel more free to tinker around with it to bring it up to par with what people are expecting, and I think as with the past, they'll look to what fans have done with it over the years (and today) to inform that revision. I'm not worried, but I am anxious to learn what they do end up changing!

But I really think that they are going to expand this box, rather than just releasing the content as it was (making it a small box offered for a lower price). As I've said before, this is a golden opportunity that AH has, between this box and the CoPD retail re-release... to package up and give us the remaining "Haslab exclusives" from the crowd funding campaign of 2020. But, it's also possible we could get a brand new female Wizard sculpt or something. That wouldn't be so terrible... though here's hoping for both!

[SirRick]

I feel it would be a wasted opportunity for AH to release WoM as original as possible. My guess is it will receive a similar treatment as AtOH. 5 new quests to make 10 total, but give the option to skip the new ones to play a more original version.

I really feel this is a chance to add new artifacts or equipment, particularly stuff for the Wizard, or even casters in general. While agree the new hero spells need some revising, its not like the spells currently are bad, but the base ones tend to be a little more useful. I think the Wizard getting some method of increasing the number of spells in a quest would be nice. It gives the Wizard more of a chance to use the new spells without giving up the reliable favorites.

[wallydubbs]

Well it seems like with each expansion the heroes get further and further away from Zargon. I'm the Game System we get Zargon's story from Mentor and by the end of it the Emperor leads an army against Zargon himself.

Keller's Keep the heroes embark on their mission to save the King, to which they get the King out before Zargon's final assault. The end of Keller's Keep is essentially the last we see of Zargon directly, unless you count the prologue of the original Against the Ogre Horde and Wizard's of Morcar.

In Prophecy of Telor the overall story follows saving the bearer from Melar's possession and then Fellmarak at the end.

In Spirit Queen's Torment we get even further from Zargon, Mentor isn't even present through most of it. Overall the heroes just need to either save the Spirit Queen or put her to rest.

Return of the Witch Lord is all about stopping the Witch Lord, nothing to do with Zargon. Just prevent him from gaining an ally.

In Against the Ogre Hoard the heroes need to win the World's End Tournament to learn the location of the Ogre clan that's teaming with Zargon. But only Festral is guiding the reigns on behalf of Zargon.

In the Frozen Horror, the Frozen Horror must be stopped or it'll cover the region with Ice.

In Mage of the Mirror it is only assumed that Sinestra is working on behalf of Zargon and the heroes need to rescue Milandriel and put an end to her.

In Rise of the Dread Moon civil unrest still plagues Elthorn and the heroes need to take the capital. Sir Ragnar is responsible and from out of nowhere we have Magrian.

Then we have Jungles of Delthrak where the Blight is spreading, threatening nearby settlers. The Blight, again could be linked to Zargon.

Crypt of Perpetual Darkness seemingly has nothing to do with Zargon as Venim and Kendrick Gilbane are the main bosses. It's about the Crown of Shadows, that is someway linked to a Dark Tower.

In all of these, with an exception of Keller's Keep, it's the heroes thwarting plans that are potentially linked to Zargon. Zargon is never the main boss, he's only hatching schemes or trying to gain allies. But when you get right down to it, all of these plots could exist without Zargon. The King is held up at Keller's Keep and needs the heroes to find an escape for his forced; The Talisman of Lore needs an exorcism; Spirit Queen has been corrupted and needs to lay to rest; The Witch Lord himself is a big enough threat that he needs to be removed; same with the Frozen Horror; the civil war in Elthorn has the least connection to Zargon; the Blight can be spreading with or without Zargon's input; and unless Zargon lives in the Dark Tower the Crypt of Perpetual Darkness has little linked to him.

In a Wizard's of Morcar/Zargon I'd like something linking the bad guys much closer to Zargon to suggest the heroes are getting closer to the big bad.