HeroQuest lost Quest Packs: Wizard and Dwarf Quest Pack

[Kurgan]

As long as the project has a home in good hands, that's what counts.

[Kurgan]

lestodante, question about the new spell system you're seeing there...

Is it clear from the notes just how many spells the Wizard gets in his quest pack?

Did they intend that he still gets to choose 3 of each element from the 'pool' of 8 for each, or does he end up with a total higher than 9 spells in a quest? It sounds like the Elf still only gets one "group" whether it's the unchosen element or else his own exclusive spell group (from which he chooses only 3).

The free choice thing would make the most sense, but I was kind of wondering at first (or maybe just hoping) he'd get an upgrade and have actually more spells. What's stopping him from just always picking the healing + attack spells instead of the utility spells? I'm presuming none of the artifacts actually give him new exclusive spells (are there spell scrolls for any of these?) just let him regain or use the one he has faster (wand of magic, spell ring).

I like the idea of the Wizard earning the right to use more magic, but that's my homebrew idea, not to be confused with what these designers were doing back in the 90's.

[lucapaschi]

lestodante, question about the new spell system you're seeing there...

Is it clear from the notes just how many spells the Wizard gets in his quest pack?

Did they intend that he still gets to choose 3 of each element from the 'pool' of 8 for each, or does he end up with a total higher than 9 spells in a quest? It sounds like the Elf still only gets one "group" whether it's the unchosen element or else his own exclusive spell group (from which he chooses only 3).

The free choice thing would make the most sense, but I was kind of wondering at first (or maybe just hoping) he'd get an upgrade and have actually more spells. What's stopping him from just always picking the healing + attack spells instead of the utility spells? I'm presuming none of the artifacts actually give him new exclusive spells (are there spell scrolls for any of these?) just let him regain or use the one he has faster (wand of magic, spell ring).

I like the idea of the Wizard earning the right to use more magic, but that's my homebrew idea, not to be confused with what these designers were doing back in the 90's.

It seems the limit is still at 9, but there’s an object that allows you to keep an extra 3 or 4 you can use, albeit you cannot move in the turn you cast a spell from there.

[therealshrek]

The number of Spells always remained consistent, unless you had something that allowed for more, or was
using the XP system that allowed you to increase it. Elf pack for example, the Elf still only could choose 3 if chose Elven magic.

[Pancho]

The number of Spells always remained consistent, unless you had something that allowed for more, or was
using the XP system that allowed you to increase it. Elf pack for example, the Elf still only could choose 3 if chose Elven magic.

It’s a bit strange now though, because if each elemental deck now has 6 cards then it doesn’t fall nicely into 3 cards for the Elf and 9 for the Wizard. I’m not sure if those Heroes are supposedly to choose or randomly draw spells from elemental decks, which sounds a bit “messy” in a game that’s known for its simple elegant mechanics.

[therealshrek]

From what I am seeing all the types of Magic will have 8 or 9 at this point. IF it is 9, then the wizard could simply choose all 9 from one category.
But he has the option to still choose 3 spells each from 3 different types. It looks like the new wizard spells are pretty close to Wizards of Morcar
at least as far as types go, and if that is the case, then the question arises as to which new categories are available to who? Especially now
that we also have Bard, Warlock, and Druid. Are these exclusive like "Elf Magic" Or is Elf and druid both available to Elf?
Are Protection, Detection and Darkness wizard only? etc. etc.

[Pancho]

From what I am seeing all the types of Magic will have 8 or 9 at this point. IF it is 9, then the wizard could simply choose all 9 from one category.
But he has the option to still choose 3 spells each from 3 different types. It looks like the new wizard spells are pretty close to Wizards of Morcar
at least as far as types go, and if that is the case, then the question arises as to which new categories are available to who? Especially now
that we also have Bard, Warlock, and Druid. Are these exclusive like "Elf Magic" Or is Elf and druid both available to Elf?
Are Protection, Detection and Darkness wizard only? etc. etc.

The Wizard quest pack only has 3 new spells for each elemental deck that I have seen so far, so that’s 6 per deck in total.
Choosing from decks might be the way they do it, in the same way that the Elf chooses 3 Elf spells from the deck of 8. But the reason I say it could be messier this time is because the Wizard will have to choose from within more than one of the new six-spell element decks.
If I were doing it I’d include an artefact for the Wizard that bring some him up to 12 spells, so he can just take two complete decks, but I think it’s been confirmed that isn’t the case. I’m intrigued to know how it will all work.

I’m personally not a fan of the new Hasbro Heroes to the extent where I don’t even consider the new stuff canon, so I’m only really interested in how the long-lost Classic expansions effect the classic Heroes. I wouldn’t have thought that the Bard, Druid & Halfling daemon would get access to the elemental spells anyway.

[Kurgan]

The Remake is a whole new ballgame, but the rules by default don't let the Druid, Bard or Warlock use any spells OTHER than the three assigned to each by the Mythic tier. No real directions are given on using these heroes other than the Bard being a replacement for the first hero to die in Spirit Queen's Torment. So as far as I can see, the idea of a Warlock choosing elemental spells is entirely a homebrew move (one I personally wouldn't use).

None of these heroes were thought of when the "lost packs" were being worked on, of course. But the idea of the Elf choosing 3 out of a pile of Elf spells is something we had in 1992, so if Wizard quest pack would have done something similar for the Wizard, that is in keeping with these precedents.

People not liking it and wishing to change it to something else strikes me as akin to those who don't like the idea of Spell Scrolls (any hero can use them) and so make a homebrew rule that only "magic users" (Elf and Wizard) can use them, even though this is an explicit contradiction of the intention of these artifacts by the original designers.

I'm most interested in what the original designers intended (as best we can see from their notes). What people do after that is a nice thing too. Maybe someone wants to make the Rock mole into a hero. That's cool, but I'd like to know first how that creature was meant to function by the designers.

We can all agree that EQP and BQP are broken as written, so we come up with homebrews to try to make them more balanced and fun. I'd like to see the "broken," unfinished versions of these quests & gameplay mechanics too before we start proposing new fixes.

It sounds to me from what you all are saying that the Wizard gets a bit more spell choice within those categories, like the Elf got in his pack and the Wizards of Morcar material is not necessarily all ported over, but more being used as placeholders and inspiration as needed by the team making the Wizard pack.

[Pancho]

Basically we are just waiting to hear from Luca and Lestodante how all this stuff works in the original notes. I’m excited and just wondering how the new elemental spells are going to be incorporated, amongst other stuff (the Wizards pet Sabre-tooth etc). None of us want to change anything from the official notes unless they are missing and we absolutely have to.

[lestodante]

As Luca sayd:

It seems the limit is still at 9, but there’s an object that allows you to keep an extra 3 or 4 you can use, albeit you cannot move in the turn you cast a spell from there.

i can add, in the first draft there were 2 of this artifact (of the same type), so 6 more spells, then one was deleted and only one left.
So it's 9 standard spells, plus 3 additional spell, plus one in the Spell ring (if the weizard owns it) and scrolls eventually.