Heroquest remake by Hasbro - The BIG discussion thread

[Kurgan]

Supposedly it was planned for the cancelled Dwarf Questpack, prototypes exist, and a very similar monster appears in Battlemasters. I never really thought of the furry monster on the monster card backs as a minotaur, as I tend to think of those as having the actual head of a bull, but I guess "beastman" is pretty generic too (He-Man!). Every franchise or artist interprets these things a little differently...

As cool and as nostalgic as the artwork is, I always take card/rule descriptions as a higher level of canon than artwork (and its based on mechanical game balance, not necessarily "realism"), although when they match, that's cool too. In any physical game like this there's going to be some suspension of disbelief and imagination involved. The suggestion of a larger world of endless possibilities is a good in itself without it all having to be explained, documented and a card/miniature of everything produced (but most big franchises and/or fans will try!).

[Davane]

Supposedly it was planned for the cancelled Dwarf Questpack, prototypes exist, and a very similar monster appears in Battlemasters. I never really thought of the furry monster on the monster card backs as a minotaur, as I tend to think of those as having the actual head of a bull, but I guess "beastman" is pretty generic too (He-Man!). Every franchise or artist interprets these things a little differently...

As cool and as nostalgic as the artwork is, I always take card/rule descriptions as a higher level of canon than artwork (and its based on mechanical game balance, not necessarily "realism"), although when they match, that's cool too. In any physical game like this there's going to be some suspension of disbelief and imagination involved. The suggestion of a larger world of endless possibilities is a good in itself without it all having to be explained, documented and a card/miniature of everything produced (but most big franchises and/or fans will try!).

You'd be surprised at just how generic the term Beastman actually is, Kurgan.

In Warhammer lore, Beastman refers to any form of significant chaos mutation, and originally, the earliest Skaven were also Beastmen. Thanks to WFB, the term Beastman was somewhat standardised into Gors and Ungors, both types of Goatmen, and Minotaurs were bundled in with them.

But, in WFRP, Beastmen cover all sorts of chaos mutations, and there are entire tables dedicated to random mutations for players and NPCs alike. Many Lizardmen started out as Chaos Mutants, and the mutations run the gamult from claws, pincers, and tentacles, through to eyestalks, extra limbs, and even malformed torsos. In general, Chaos mutations see people devolve from bipedal to Chaos Spawn, amorphous blobs of Chaos matter covered in eyes, mouths, and appendages. It was a fate for those deemed unworthy of the true gifts of Chaos...

[Kurgan]

This is great stuff. So even things I made up on my own are actually a canon part of the WFRP world!

For example my "mutants" are insect-like creatures chemically altered by Chaos to be human sized (and humanoid) monsters, and a process that turns the gentle bigfoot into a roided up rampaging killing-machine. Neither were originally human but they would be considered "beastmen" under that system. Chaos magic has even caused my simple posts to grow to monstrous size...

[Oftkilted]

... In general, Chaos mutations see people devolve from bipedal to Chaos Spawn, amorphous blobs of Chaos matter covered in eyes, mouths, and appendages. It was a fate for those deemed unworthy of the true gifts of Chaos...

A better description would be that they were blessed with more gifts from the chaos gods than their form could handle. So all the blessings just kindof oozed out everywhere. Like trying to put 10kg of sugar into a 5kg bag. It doesn’t quite fit. The sugar is just as sweet... but the bag is unable to hold all of the goodness!

[Davane]

This is great stuff. So even things I made up on my own are actually a canon part of the WFRP world!

For example my "mutants" are insect-like creatures chemically altered by Chaos to be human sized (and humanoid) monsters, and a process that turns the gentle bigfoot into a roided up rampaging killing-machine. Neither were originally human but they would be considered "beastmen" under that system. Chaos magic has even caused my simple posts to grow to monstrous size...

Actually, they both sound like something that the Skaven would plot - Clan Moulder specialises is creature creation, breeding, and modification, using extensive Warpstone treatments, the most famous of which is the Rat Ogre. The Skaven are the classic "mad scientists" of the Warhammer world. Clan Skyre works on Warpstone-based lightning technology, and Clan Pestilens works on bio-engineered custom plagues. Of the big four Skaven clans, only Clan Eshin doesn't typically work with warpstone, as they are an assassin clan that can rival even the famed Nipponese ninja clans.

Chaos itself tends to use direct magical treatments and mutations, rather than any kind of deliberate science. Tzeentch is the master of magic and mutation, and literally personifies the Warp itself, which is the source of all magic in the Warhammer world. Nurgle focuses of diseases and plague, but these are magical in nature, but Grandfather Nurgle is known for his association to flies and other disease-ridden insects. Slaanesh is the Lord of Pleasure, and therefore deals more in infiltrating the decadent Empire, and is second only to Tzeentch in terms of plots and cultists. Khorne detests magic, but as a Chaos God is still tied up with the Warp, and thus significantly magical, representing the hordes of killer daemons from beyond and their endless drive to slaughter.

Ultimately, Chaos and Skaven can be seen as two-sides of the same mutant coin - Chaos representing a more faith-based approach, and the Skaven a more scientific one. The Skaven and their foul god, the Horned Rat, have long aspired to become one of the true Chaos Gods, and it's only following the end of the World That Was (i.e. the awakening of the Age of Sigmar) that they finally got their wish, and thus are now part of the Chaos faction...

[Kurgan]

Yeah, this isn't Warhammer canon, I just find it interesting how similar my "de-magicified" mod is to what's in there. I'm thinking Zargon actually employs alchemists, mostly humans, who engineer these new monsters. There are other mad scientists out there doing stuff too, but they're actually supplementing the army with these creatures. Here it's all "science." Whether they are using warpstone, or something else, it doesn't really matter. But it's not inter-dimensional radiation or the work of "chaos gods" (aliens) either. Only the ignorant and superstitious would regard it as "magic" in the mod I'm using, but the effect is more or less the same... weird stuff happens using skills not everyone has.

Let me guess, is there such a thing as "chaos alchemy" in warhammer canon? Because that's basically my homebrew replacement for "dread magic" or whatever its being called now.

[Davane]

Yeah, this isn't Warhammer canon, I just find it interesting how similar my "de-magicified" mod is to what's in there. I'm thinking Zargon actually employs alchemists, mostly humans, who engineer these new monsters. There are other mad scientists out there doing stuff too, but they're actually supplementing the army with these creatures. Here it's all "science." Whether they are using warpstone, or something else, it doesn't really matter. But it's not inter-dimensional radiation or the work of "chaos gods" (aliens) either. Only the ignorant and superstitious would regard it as "magic" in the mod I'm using, but the effect is more or less the same... weird stuff happens using skills not everyone has.

Let me guess, is there such a thing as "chaos alchemy" in warhammer canon? Because that's basically my homebrew replacement for "dread magic" or whatever its being called now.

Depends how you define "chaos alchemy," - Alchemy itself exists, thanks to the Gold College from the wind of Chamon. They tend to call themselves alchemists. However, basic chemistry is also a thing in Warhammer, which is set mid to late renaissance. So anything pre-industrial really. Generally, if it exists, then there's a warped form of it being abused by Chaos and/or Skaven.

To get the true scope of just how insidious and powerful the Chaos Gods are, you might want to diverge and read some of the Horus Heresy novels regarding the traitor legions. It's the same Chaos Gods in the 30th Millenium as on Warhammer World. They can corrupt gene-perfected Astartes (in fact, the Emperor is said to have created the Space Marines with the help of the Chaos Gods), as well as the Machine Spirits of Warmachines like Tanks and Titans. Entire Battlefleets travel through the warp, protected only by psychically-powered Geller Shields to stop the Warp from snagging the ships and devouring the crew.

It seems that the Imperium is weirdly xenophobic and secular, with the only mandated faith being that of the God-Emperor himself and the resulting Ecclesiarchy, or the martian Omnisiah of the Adeptus Mechanicus, because the Emperor knows the truth behind the Chaos Gods and the secrets of the warp. There's millenia of lost history between what we know of Ancient Terra, and the Imperium right now in the 40K universe.

This might seem off scope, but the Chaos Gods are essentially Lovecraftian Elder Gods, beings that aren't just from beyond the stars, but the sentient dimensional essence between the stars, at the very edges of reality, trying to breach through. Turns out, as humanity's reality got bigger, it just go stretched further to defend from those that would consume it. It's not "interdimensional radiation" - but rather that reality itself exists like an egg shell, with the horrors writhing within just trying to hatch and break through...

[Kurgan]

In mine these "gods" (or daemons) are just powerful aliens. Without their tech, they're not that big a deal, since they can be killed by "alchemically infused" weapons. Sometimes they come back, though, if not fully killed in this world. Their influence is rare. "Chaos" is more a philosophy, an ethos, than some kind of evil substance that corrupts things (evil enough exists in the hearts of beings to do that).

Alchemy broadly speaking, refers to all of the "occult" (hidden, meaning the knowledge needed to make it happen) skills and abilities in my world, from mentalism, manipulation of the elements, chemical and herb lore, to Batman style gadgetry. The only thing it doesn't include are stage magician type tricks... these are attributed to "fraud" alchemists, which are banned from the Empire and all civilized societies except as entertainment for the lower classes (and the bad guys banned it because it doesn't work!). Yes, you can transmute base metals into gold, but it's very expensive, so unless you have a desperate need for gold specifically, it's not really worth it (plus it would crash the monetary system if you could do it in vast quantities).

The mutations I use are deliberate, laboratory induced... taking otherwise docile animal-kind and turning them into dangerous killers, as well as enhancing the natural strength (as well as killer instincts) of human beings through chemical means (though with some unpleasant side effects). Even good guys can temporarily be controlled, with the right formulations, when they are at their weakest state mentally. There are no "undead," just revived alive and chemically/mentally altered.

So yes, other worlds exist. While the action takes place on one planet, there are forms of precognition (possibilities), wormholes into time, and teleportation, as well as compressed space (bigger on the inside!). Traces of lost technology, and even rarer knowledge but it's out there.

My Loretome isn't a magic book, it's actually a vast complex of computers maintained by an order of loyal monks. The interpretation of its output is Mentor's specialty. Zargon (Morcar) is so dangerous, not only because of his ambition and questionable ethics, but because he copied schematics of the system before he fled, and has in the ensuring centuries, constructed his own impression of it.

I haven't used skaven yet, but I've pretty much assumed they exist too this whole time (are they a "race" of mutants or natural creatures? I haven't decided yet... but having them be like the Rats of NIMH sounds like a fun idea). If they have their own alchemy, it isn't that far fetched. This isn't something that is limited to a specific "race." Orcs, Fimirs, humans, elves, dwarves... if the individual has the brains and the training they can do it, or if they have the tools and can follow instructions (the infamous "alchemist item" --- for dummies, in the tear-open bag with the black and yellow stripes!).

And yes, Warhammer is canon in my world too... it costs 500 gold coins and cannot be used by an Alchemist. But it's cool that without realizing it, I've re-created some aspects of another franchise's lore in my own homebrew. Great minds and all that...

I have two worlds, there's this one and then there's the other one where "it's just magic."

It will be interesting to come up with a de-magicified mod of the new Remake material. I was surprised how easily the new characters could be transformed into existing classes, but the whole Orc pirate/monk subculture was pretty fun to imagine.

[Shadzar]

HeroQuest in real danger now, as it seems Avalon Hill may return to Wizards of the Coast, since HASBRO is putting them in charge of ALL games.

https://comicbook.com/gaming/news/wizar ... ganizatio/

Under the re-organization, Wizards will become one of three Hasbro divisions and will be tasked with expanding Dungeons & Dragons, Magic: The Gathering, and other existing games, creating new games and overseeing digital licensing for all of Hasbro.

[cornixt]

"All" games is not true:

there will also be a consumer products [division] covering toys and classic board games

It's not really clear which division Heroquest falls into. It's certainly a classic board game. Finished products like this get passed between divisions easily.

But even then, it's not adding any risk to the HQ remake. I would question whether they want HQ to be labelled as yet another D&D boardgame even if it was a Wizards release, they released a couple more of them last year.