Thoughts on the New Orc Bard Hero?

[Orc26]

So... I played the Orc Bard and here are my thoughts

First of all we ran Quest 2 with a Barbarian, Dwarf, Wizard, and Bard.
Only piece of non-default gear was the Dwarf and his helmet.
Heroes went south first so alarm was fully effective.

The Spells. (As I've already forgotten their actual names you will just have to deal with their replacements)
-Inspiration was used rather quickly so the barbarian could really smack the fimir. Bard then was the only one to roll 2 shields for few couple of turns. Got used nearly immediately every time it came off of cool down after the alarm was triggered.
(There was also a wonky line of sight thing where the minis were lined up bard, adjacent to orc, adjacent to dwarf and the dwarf rolled 2 shields and due to the rules the spell wasn't recharged, but that felt wrong...)
-Sleep was Sleep.
-Mass heal was used rather effectively to heal 6 body points across all heroes.

The Rapier.
It was a short sword that could attack diagonally... so slightly better than a short sword.

Overall opinion: Bard works fine. AND since we had to use the elf mini on TTS we didn't have the "but it's an orc" issue...

[Oftkilted]

Ahh an excellent review!

And the choices in LOS make a substantial difference then. Thematically it would seem that fighting in hallways/passages wouldn’t allow the Bard to view the action. Or if they’re not directly there with the team they’re not properly supporting the group.

[Davane]

Where are the mods? Can we take all this crap down?

What crap?

This is a discussion about the Orc Bard, and how that relates to the wider issues of the gaming community, diversity in gaming, the role of social justice, and the metaphysical traits of the HQ setting, which many still consider to be set in a version of the Warhammer World thanks the GW's input.

You might not think these are important to discuss, but they are, because it relates to deeper aspects of identity, and why the HQ community even exists as a community.

You might as well be asking the mods to shut down the forums completely because people talk too much on them.

I apologise if this is a level of thinking that goes beyond what you want from the HQ forums, but if all of this is crap, why are you even here on these forums?

[Davane]

Good post, Shadzar. However, I do have to disagree with you on some points, mostly regarding the nature of what games are and what roleplaying games are.

Games, whilst amusing, are actually incredibly useful learning tools. Most games involve defines a set of rules of varying complexity, to create a simulation in which it's relatively safe to experiment, test, learn, and develop as a sentient being. Games are essentially, formalised and codified forms of play. Games teach about many things, in so many different ways. It might be to practice survival skills, increase your physical aptitude, developing teamworking skills, learning strategy, or experiencing things that you might never otherwise experience.

Games work alongside stories, which is another tool for learning. Stories, be they fictional wish fulfillment, morality tales, or real life anecdotes, are a great way to transmit and share ideas, develop communication skills, and make sense of the world, as we learn to understand tropes, recognise patterns of behaviour, and can pass on experiences to others so that they do not have to go through them themselves to learn from them.

RPGs are fairly unique, and could be considered the apex learning tool for humanity. RPGs combine storytelling and gameplay, and are essentially a game about telling stories, so we can learn to become better storytellers, better teachers, better learners, and better people.

There's a saying: Wisdom is learning from your own mistakes. Intelligence is learning from the mistakes of others.

Storytelling and gaming, in all their various forms, have helped humanity to become the apex sentient species on this planet, and we are still improving, as we learn and teach each other.

HQ is a game, where you play a character, and are given an objective to complete. This is often provided by a story, but it's fairly storylite, because HQ isn't about storytelling.

It's a great place to start discovering RPGs, because quite often storytelling emerges from the game, just as it emerges from real life. Who doesn't have a tale of their favourite hero, completing their favourite objectives, and dealing with the whims of the dice? Tales of triumph against the odds, or tales where you were thwarted by the dice at almost every turn, barely succeeding in escaping the dungeon with your life so you can quest another day? What about the times when a hero dies protecting another hero, going down in a last stand in a blaze of glory?

There are many ways of categorising different types of games, and different types of gamers. One of the most common is the GNS triangle, where games (and players) are rated on the three core aspects of a game: Gameplay, Narrative, and Simulation.

Gameplay rates how much of a game there is - is there a lot of player strategy, any sort of competition, if you have a character, do they get better over time, what rewards do you get from the game, and so on. For video games, this is where player interactivity with the game is measured, and in board games or roleplaying games, this is where player decision making and the components are often covered.

Narrative rates the story elements of the game. Does the game have a story? Does the story impact the game, change with the game, or evolve over time? Are the player tokens simply pawns or meeple, or are they fleshed out characters that can learn and grow as characters through play. In both video and board or RPGs, this is where the story is rated, in terms of importance to the game, as well as how interactive the story is.

Simulation rates how well the game models the environment or situation it is portraying. Is the representation of the game abstract, or a direct correlation. How comprehensive is the rule system? How real does the game feel? Are the rules even consistent? Does the player know the rules of the game?

So it's wrong to say D&D and RPGs are not about stories, because they are. But because of the diversity of rpgs and D&D, there's a great deal of variety between players regarding how much story is, or should, be in their games.

HQ is not a story heavy game - you get background from Mentor and goal to complete, and sometimes, depending on the quest itself, the players actions may change the objectives as they alter how the story goes. It's not truly designed to be a story heavy game. You can add story to it, and many players do - hence the popularity of fan-made Evil Wizard cards - but for the most part, HQ is a simple combat simulation about heroes going on a quest and getting the job done, as they are told by mentor.

The great thing is that anyone can alter their games to suit their tastes, and the key is to find a group of people who have similar tastes in how they play games to you. There's no point trying to force people who want to play a story-lite game like HQ into playing a heavy story-driven game. Because if they wanted to play a more story-heavy game - they would either already add more story to the game, or be playing a game more suited to their tastes.

[cornixt]

People are emotional right now because the world isn't working the way they want it to, with them on top. It's not like we are discussing science here or anything (a throwback to that old argument for those who were around for it). HQ is one of the most modifiable board games, where you can add or remove almost where you like without breaking anything else, but people are really getting bent out of shape by the new heroes that they can just ignore, and the added nuance to the background.

[j_dean80]

Where are the mods? Can we take all this crap down?

What crap?

This is a discussion about the Orc Bard, and how that relates to the wider issues of the gaming community, diversity in gaming, the role of social justice, and the metaphysical traits of the HQ setting, which many still consider to be set in a version of the Warhammer World thanks the GW's input.

You might not think these are important to discuss, but they are, because it relates to deeper aspects of identity, and why the HQ community even exists as a community.

You might as well be asking the mods to shut down the forums completely because people talk too much on them.

I apologise if this is a level of thinking that goes beyond what you want from the HQ forums, but if all of this is crap, why are you even here on these forums?

One or two posts to show your point is fine. When you keep going on and on with long posts about political agenda that ACTUALLY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ORC BARD, is when I get tired of seeing all the posts in this thread. It’s not that I’m offended, I just don’t care as it has nothing to do with this thread. I’m sure others agree. Make a separate thread if you want. It is an orc who is a bard. Does it fit with old HeroQuest? No. I’m not arguing that. In fact I’m not arguing at all. It just doesn’t belong right here.

[Davane]

One or two posts to show your point is fine. When you keep going on and on with long posts about political agenda that ACTUALLY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ORC BARD, is when I get tired of seeing all the posts in this thread. It’s not that I’m offended, I just don’t care as it has nothing to do with this thread. I’m sure others agree. Make a separate thread if you want. It is an orc who is a bard. Does it fit with old HeroQuest? No. I’m not arguing that. In fact I’m not arguing at all. It just doesn’t belong right here.

Except that it does. This is the general HQ discussion thread, and the discussion is about the Orc Bard, and whether it belongs in HQ. The argument rests upon the type of game HQ is, the pre-existing lore, and the relevant information about the Orc Bard. It's ALL related, and it ALL belongs here.

The Orc Bard is an anomaly in a very simple setting where Orcs are Evil. Morcar/Zargon uses Orcs for his own forces against Mentor and the Heroes. So WHY would any bunch of Heroes trust an Orc Bard? Why would an Orc Bard fight against their own kind? Orcs fight Orcs all the time, as they believe might makes right and survival of the fittest, but why would an Orc abandon that creed and favour agility?

The plain truth is that the Orc Bard feels forced into the setting, because there's absolutely nothing to justify it at this point. The Orc Bard itself doesn't feel Orcy - so one has to ask why bother making it an Orc at all? The Bard could just as easily be Human, Elven, or Halfling, but instead they chose a Monster race. A big part of this is the lack of information Hasbro has provided - and the justifications of the designers doesn't inspire confidence that this is anything other than trying to be different for the sake of it.

Teos speaks about exploring the idea that there's an Ancient Orc Kingdom where they mastered magic. But we need more details - but Hasbro has gone silent since they've taken our money. I want to see WHY an Orc Bard is supposed to fit in HQ. Otherwise, it's just as bad as if Hasbro decided there should be a Space Marine Terminator in HQ...

[cynthialee]

there is nothing wrong with asking for accountability and decency at the game table

and the issues with men gamer are an issue for all male gamer, not just the bad apples. You good guys need to step it up and keep hate and stagnation in check.

So there is an orc bard and it somehow makes it a SJW issue.....then fine we can make it that now I will dig in harder. Because the world needs less *lemony goodness* and more sparkle. If I say they are now suddenly representative of people of color it is due to the reaction I see from those who rail against social justice issues.

And those of us calling for social change and injecting it into places some don't want to see ... it is not going to stop. We will not go away from the greater culture. It will become more and more in the face until that time where the need for it is no more.

[Pancho]

there is nothing wrong with asking for accountability and decency at the game table

and the issues with men gamer are an issue for all male gamer, not just the bad apples. You good guys need to step it up and keep hate and stagnation in check.

So there is an orc bard and it somehow makes it a SJW issue.....then fine we can make it that now I will dig in harder. Because the world needs less *lemony goodness* and more sparkle. If I say they are now suddenly representative of people of color it is due to the reaction I see from those who rail against social justice issues.

And those of us calling for social change and injecting it into places some don't want to see ... it is not going to stop. We will not go away from the greater culture. It will become more and more in the face until that time where the need for it is no more.

Here’s an idea. Next time some creep gives you grief at the Heroquest table, just tell them that you are playing with the orc bard Hero. They’ll probably do a runner and leave you in peace for ever after.

[cornixt]

Here’s an idea. Next time some creep gives you grief at the Heroquest table, just tell them that you are playing with the orc bard Hero. They’ll probably do a runner and leave you in peace for ever after.

Judging by this thread, they will rant at you for an hour about forcing them to view something with diversity, yell randomly about SJWs, and how complain about how everything is being ruined.