Ye Olde Inn

We all know that between (most) Quests, the Heroes automatically recover all their Mind Points (just like their Body Points).

Some Artifacts give EXTRA mind points for the wearer, even beyond your normal maximum.

I'm not counting house rules (like where I say Holy Water restores 1 MP).

Game System:
Talisman of Lore (gives 1 EXTRA in NA / 2 EXTRA in EU)
Elixir of Life (NA version): restores all Mind Points to dead Hero. Would it do the same for someone who is in "shock"? GS/KK/ROTWL rules say a Hero with 0 Mind Points is unconscious and removed from the quest (just like if they're dead), whereas EQP/BQP say you go into shock (movement reduced to 1 die, defense to 2 and attack to 1).

Edit: Phoenix's editorial change was to make KK the same as ROTWL but as Bareheaded Warrior pointed out below, the two packs ARE different in their handling of 0 Mind Point heroes (in KK you are really dead unless you have an Elixir of Life!). I was going by Phoenix's unification of the two rather than what the original quest book(s) said.

Kellar's Keep / Return of the Witch Lord :
Potion of Restoration (restores 1 MP for 500 gold)

Frozen Horror: Barbarian Quest Pack:
Amulet of the North grants 1 extra MP to the Barbarian
Spell Scroll Psychic Recovery (restores all MP)

Mage of the Mirror: Elf Quest Pack:
Elven Bracers grant 1 extra MP to the Elf
Potion of Restoration (restores all MP for 800 gold)

Am I missing any others from the official Hero Quest packs?

Kurgan wrote:We all know that between (most) Quests, the Heroes automatically recover all their Mind Points (just like their Body Points).

Some Artifacts give EXTRA mind points for the wearer, even beyond your normal maximum.

I'm not counting house rules (like where I say Holy Water restores 1 MP).

Game System:
Talisman of Lore (gives 1 EXTRA in NA / 2 EXTRA in EU)
Elixir of Life (NA version): restores all Mind Points to dead Hero. Would it do the same for someone who is in "shock"? GS/KK/ROTWL rules say a Hero with 0 Mind Points is unconscious and removed from the quest (just like if they're dead), whereas EQP/BQP say you go into shock (movement reduced to 1 die, defense to 2 and attack to 1).

Kellar's Keep / Return of the Witch Lord :
Potion of Restoration (restores 1 MP for 500 gold)

Frozen Horror: Barbarian Quest Pack:
Amulet of the North grants 1 extra MP to the Barbarian
Spell Scroll Psychic Recovery (restores all MP)

Mage of the Mirror: Elf Quest Pack:
Elven Bracers grant 1 extra MP to the Elf
Potion of Restoration (restores all MP for 800 gold)

Am I missing any others from the official Hero Quest packs?

I think you've listed them all, but there's a few things I'd like to add:
I'm pretty sure the Elixir of Life can be drank by any hero regardless of whether he's alive or dead. It restores all mind and body points. It is the only artifact that could bring a hero back from the dead. So I'm pretty sure a hero in Shock can drink this.

Also, I may be mistaken, but I don't think the Game System or Return of the Witch Lord says anything about a hero being "unconscious and/or removed from the board" when reduced to 0MP. I think the only meantion of this is brought up in Keller's Keep, Quest 9 East Gate when facing Borokk, as he assaults the heroes' mind points.

I may be getting it confused with WOM and ATOH which definitely say it.

What happens to an unconscious hero? Presumably he doesn't lose his gear like a hero who is flat out killed in an empty (or monster-occupied) room or corridor. But if the rest of the party gets killed, does he get to continue the next quest (or is it assumed his body had to be dragged out by everybody else at the end of the quest, rather than, I guess magically rescued by Mentor?).

If you go unconscious, is that IT (you're out of the quest, period), or if at some point could your mind points be restored and you could continue on? I guess an unconscious player isn't able to drink a potion (pour it down their throat? is that how the elixir works or do you just pour it on their corpse?), but you could place an artifact on them to bring up their number by 1 and "revive" them? I guess it's a judgment call by Zargon.

The "go into shock" rule seems better, but then if it was really dangerous, you're risking death for real (though those mind point attacks can't get you any lower), while unconsciousness could be a way to sit this one out (one less target) while the rest of the Heroes try to muddle through.

Roll a die to see if you go into shock or slip into unconsciousness? It appears the EQP/BQP went with the shock rule while the rest of the quests , if they have one, went with unconscious.

But if there's no clarification, what happens to you with 0 mind points? Turn into zombie?

Kurgan wrote:I may be getting it confused with WOM and ATOH which definitely say it.

What happens to an unconscious hero? Presumably he doesn't lose his gear like a hero who is flat out killed in an empty (or monster-occupied) room or corridor. But if the rest of the party gets killed, does he get to continue the next quest (or is it assume his body had to be dragged out by everybody else at the end of the quest, rather than, I guess magically rescued by Mentor?).

If you go unconscious, is that IT (you're out of the quest, period), or if at some point could your mind points be restored and you could continue on? I guess an unconscious person isn't able to drink a potion (pour it down their throat? is that how the elixir works or do you just pour it on their corpse?), but you could place an artifact on them to bring up their number by 1 and "revive" them? I guess it's a judgment call by Zargon.

The "go into shock" rule seems better.

It appears the EQP/BQP went with the shock rule while the rest of the quests , if they have one, went with unconscious.

But if there's no clarification, what happens to you with 0 mind points? Turn into zombie?

It might have been in Against the Ogre Horde...

I go with the "shock" rule, even for AtOH and WoM... not that mind points are used in WoM. But it just makes things easier. If a heroes in shock, he's pretty much incapacitated, but still conscious enough to drink a potion.
Unconscious or dead, you can still pour the Elixir of Life down their throat, I guess. How did Fezzik and Indigo get Wesley to eat the chocolate ball from Miracle Max?

I remember playing through the game system one time and raising the stakes by giving the Witch Lord the Mind Freeze spell attack, which he used successfully on the Dwarf (Barbarian was currently under the Command spell). The Elf had the spirit Blade and finished off the Witch Lord, but the Dwarf still couldn't move. It didn't dawn on the heroes to give the Dwarf the Talisman of Lore, so they had to resort to the Elixir of Life, which seemed like a waste as the quest was complete, but they needed to get ths Dwarf out the door to complete the quest. Again, he was in shock, not dead.

If the rest of the party gets killed and there's an unconscious hero left, you pretty much assume the monsters will eat him. Unless, of course, all the monsters are dead and it was a pit trap that killed the last hero, which would really suck! I guess if a stalemate can happen in Chess, why not HeroQuest?

while not covered in the rules and thus impossible to some folks I would allow the Barbarian to port a friend out of the dungeon and make him move at 1/2 speed. Alternately 2 other heroes if Barbie is the one knocked out again at half speed, and you can only go as fast as the slowest roll.
Of course anyone wishing to fireman carry a home-boy out of the Dungeon needs to get to an adjacent square to the victim to initiate the portage.

cynthialee wrote:while not covered in the rules and thus impossible to some folks I would allow the Barbarian to port a friend out of the dungeon and make him move at 1/2 speed. Alternately 2 other heroes if Barbie is the one knocked out again at half speed, and you can only go as fast as the slowest roll.
Of course anyone wishing to fireman carry a home-boy out of the Dungeon needs to get to an adjacent square to the victim to initiate the portage.

I like this idea. And have to set them down in order to attack or defend, I presume?

Kurgan wrote:

cynthialee wrote:while not covered in the rules and thus impossible to some folks I would allow the Barbarian to port a friend out of the dungeon and make him move at 1/2 speed. Alternately 2 other heroes if Barbie is the one knocked out again at half speed, and you can only go as fast as the slowest roll.
Of course anyone wishing to fireman carry a home-boy out of the Dungeon needs to get to an adjacent square to the victim to initiate the portage.

I like this idea. And have to set them down in order to attack or defend, I presume?

of course

I think that the zero MP knock-out effect introduced in ROTWL is there as a plot device to ensure that they are all captured in time for the next Quest which starts with them all ‘imprisoned’ which is fine but I’ve always taken that as not being the standard effect of mind points being reduced to zero.

That said the effects of zero Mind Points are not listed anywhere in the rules so I have always assumed that the standard behaviour would be the equivalent to Body Points being reduced to zero as the two are directly equivalent so unless otherwise stated I assume the effects are the same – DEATH

With regard to Borokk in KK Quest 9 The East Gate - I don’t recall anything in that Quest or Quest Book that states any Hero reduced to zero MP is only knocked out, in shock or unconscious (and the plot device here is that Borokk potentially reduces your Mind Points making it harder for you to get through The East Gate) so I assume zero Mind Points here will result in death.

Edit: I have just checked and in that Quest it says “If a Hero reaches zero Mind Points then he is dead forever, unless he has an Elixir of Life” so standard rules apply.

The 'shock' rules seem to be a special exception relevant to AtOH, Frozen Horror (BQP), Mage of the Mirror (EQP)

The Potion of Rejuvenation (The Frozen Horror - Alchemist's Shop - 500GC) is just another Healing Potion with exactly the same effects but under a different name, personally I would regard the Potion of Healing, that you find in the Dungeon, who knows how long it has been down there, as restoring D6 BP, but the Potion of Rejuvenation, that is fresh and you have to pay for, to restore all your BP for 500GC.

This ties in well with the 'Healing Potions' that you get issued in ATOH if choosing to play the Quests as a series, which restore all your BP, these would just become Potions of Rejuvenation.

Applying the same logic would suggest that the Potion of Restoration, should be the Mind Point equivalent of the Potion of Rejuvenation, restoring all your lost MPs for 500GC.

In terms of carrying a Hero, I agree they are probably equivalent to a heavy chest so someone carrying them would have their movement reduced to a single die

A great point. I missed this the first time because Phoenix's editorial change was to make KK the same as ROTWL but as Bareheaded Warrior pointed out above, it IS different in that one. I was going by his unification of the two rather than what the original quest book(s) said.

Avalon Hill has clarified in their "Into the Northlands" free quest (intended for use with the Frozen Horror remake edition released officially this month, but some of us got it a month early due to the Amazon goof up) that as soon as you can (by any means) restore any lost Mind Points, then the state of shock is meant to "go away." I kind of figured this but it was a little vague in terms of EQP/BQP and their handling of the "state of shock" condition for those two NA exclusive packs (and now we know we're getting the EQP remade next Spring as well).

Kurgan, how are Mind Points restored in ATOH if playing the Quests as a series?

And separate from that question and I appreciate I am probably a year late to the party but...

wallydubbs wrote:I remember playing through the game system one time and raising the stakes by giving the Witch Lord the Mind Freeze spell attack, which he used successfully on the Dwarf (Barbarian was currently under the Command spell). The Elf had the spirit Blade and finished off the Witch Lord, but the Dwarf still couldn't move. It didn't dawn on the heroes to give the Dwarf the Talisman of Lore, so they had to resort to the Elixir of Life, which seemed like a waste as the quest was complete, but they needed to get the Dwarf out the door to complete the quest. Again, he was in shock, not dead.

In ATOH a rule appears that states that when a spell caster is killed any ongoing effects from spells he has cast immediately end (no way of knowing whether that rule is a special exception intended to be applicable within ATOH Quest Book or whether that is intended as an addition to / improvement of the standard spell rules) - so would the Elf killing the Witch Lord release the Dwarf from the effects of shock instantly – I suspect not but …?

In Frozen Horror (where the Mind Freeze spell originates) it states that extra Mind Points gained from certain artifacts (such as The Talisman of Lore form the Game System), can be lost in battle - from which I infer that the Talisman of Lore boosts your starting Mind Point value rather than your current Mind Point value

If that isn't the case and the Talisman of Lore is a permanent (at least whilst worn) +1 to your current Mind Points then not only would they never reach zero, but it would be open to abuse as the Heroes (depending on which version of the 'passing items' rules you are using can simply stand in a circle, passing the Talisman of Lore around repeatedly and instantly between them until all their MPs are fully restored, so in your example giving that to the Dwarf wouldn't work either if it boosts only his starting Mind Points.

As you point out the Dwarf was in shock, not dead (as per the Mind Freeze and Shock rules from Frozen Horror) so the Elixir of Life couldn't be used as that states it 'will bring a dead hero back to life'

Potion of Restoration isn’t available in the Game System so restoring his Mind Points isn’t an option at this point, but under the shock rules in Frozen Horror he could still move using one movement die, so could still have slowly exited the dungeon. Maybe a Swift Wind spell could have helped a little, although not sure if that works whilst under the influence of ‘shock’ as Frozen Horror doesn’t specify which spell effects work on those in ‘shock’, that said if your Dwarf was wearing Plate Mail (unlikely, but possible at that stage of the GS) then the effects of ‘shock’ on his movement would be cancelled out by the Plate Mail armour movement penalty (a well known side effect of Plate Mail armour is its ability to negate the movement penalties associated with shock?!)