Ye Olde Inn

On the other HQ forum, Knightkrawler proposed a simple rule: "If you roll all black shields in your attack, your attack is so bad you hurt yourself (One Body point)."

It was a great idea, but it would mean that the more combat dice you rolled, the chances one had to fumble dramatically lowers - the Wizard alone would be playing Russian roulette with each attack roll! After much back and forth, with the odds and alternatives, I came up with this:

Malcadon wrote:How about using the "wild die" concept from WEG's D6 RPG system? Where no matter how many dice you roll, one die must be assigned as a "wild die," which is marked or colored differently from the other dice. If you roll a 1 (or in this case, a Black Shield) on the "wild die," then there is a minor complication that hinders the character in some way... In your case, the attacker loose a single Body Point, but there is room for other complications. This is not effected by larger dice rolls, as only one die is effected in any given roll, and the odds remain the same.

How about this: If the "wild die" rolls a Black Shield in combat, roll a d6 for the following effect:

Combat Fumble Chart
1 - Weapon Brakes! The attacker's weapon is rendered useless and must fight with with a dagger (or fist) until a better weapon is drawn (if any). Artifact weapons just drops (see below).
2 - Weapon Drops! If The attacker fail to kill the opponent outright, your next attack would be with a dagger (or fist). After which, the weapon is freely retrieved.
3 - Dazed! Attacker looses next attack or action.
4 - Foot Caught! Attacker looses next movement action.
5 - Clumsy Swing! Attacker takes one hit form his own weapon (with no defense roll).
6 - Luck is on Your Side! Re-roll the die, and apply results to the defender. If a 6 is rolled again, then apply the results from the following:

Found a Weak Spot! Defender cannot roll for defense for this attack.


When applied to movement rolls (when the "wild die" rolls a 1), then the Hero might trigger a random event, or stumble onto a trap or treasure:

Random Event Chart
1 - Wandering Monster! Hero faces a Wandering Monster in the same fashion as the Treasure Cards of the same name.
2 - Hazard! Hero stumbles into a crude trap or hazard, and looses one Body Point.
3 - Foot Caught! The Hero looses next movement action.
4 - Torch Blew Out! The Hero can still act normally, but for one turn, his visibility is limited to all adjacent (and diagonal) spaces.*
5 - An Old Blade! The Hero finds a discarded knife, shaft-less spearhead or broken sword. Gain a free dagger!
6 - Gold! In a discarded coin-pouch, you find 5 gold coins.

*As an alternative (and to make the table less tough on the Heroes), #4 could be a something that triggers the recovery of 1 Body Point. Something like eating some food, or finding bandages or the like.

I also added:

Malcadon wrote:With the Combat Fumble Chart, it would really spice-up combat. Although, much of it is geared towards the defender's favor (unless the attacker rolls a 6), as long as this rule is applied to both attacking Heroes and Monsters, the players should not have any real issue with it beyond the added layer of rules.

With the Random Event Chart, it would really add a greater level of uncertainty to the exploration. The players might hate it for the added randomness and for the fact that this rule only effects the Heroes. The alternative 1 BP healed outcome was to keep the chart even with the good and bad events. An alternative to this rule could be a new phase at the beginning of the turn called the Random Event Phase, where the Evil Wizard Player rolls a combat dice to see if a random event occurs during the turn. The effects of a random event could happen to the whole party or just one random hero (WarhammerQuest-styled Event Cards are ideal for this sort of thing).

Although, the chart(s) maybe substituted with a customized deck of cards, which would be unbounded by the limits of a dice roll (and with cool pictures and flavor text to highlight what just happened).

I wish to add to the above that an event on the Random Event Phase only occurs when the Evil Wizard Player rolls a Black Shield with a single combat die roll, on any given turn.

I bring this rule (with ideas to expand upon it) here to introduce it to a wider audience, and to get more feedback on it. So if this rule - whole or in part - interests you, then what do you think about it?

I'd say good idea on limiting the encounter roll to the evil wizard's phase. It may not be a good idea as I just came up with this, but you could adjust the tables by rolling 2 dice. That way more debilitating effects can be assigned a less-likely roll, while good effects are also be limited (for fumbles, at least). The same can be achieved by cards by having more dangerous cards as rare, while the more mundane ones would have multiples. You could even have multiple black shields roll multiple times or bump to a worse effect for charts, multiple draws or the evil wizard player chooses for cards. Then again, this may be more complicated than it's worth. Just goin' with it.

By the way, I'm in favor a an encounter deck, and I've sketched out my own. My plan is to allow a draw every turn, so the evil wizard player decides when to play a card, be it for the effect that is possible as stated on the card, or spent on a chance for a wandering monster patrol. Balancing this deck also requires a different bonus for the Heroes, but that's out of the scope of this thread. The main idea is to give the evil wizard player more to do and keep up the pressure, like Descent.

Good idea about not using on movement rolls. With a 1-in-6 chance of any given Hero stumbling into something, the random events would easily overtake the normal adventure! With just a 1-in-6 chance of something happening in a given turn works out like the wandering monster check in Basic D&D. Also, cards would make more sense for HQ, and it would look nicer then a bland D&D-styled chart - namely, the the card art and flavor text.

Here I have revived the effects and added new stuff. As I think of more, I will add them. If anyone wish to contribute, then go ahead. For fumbles, I figure it is best to have two decks: one for Heroes; another for Monsters. It should be noted, that a number of results would have multiple cards for higher chance of being drawn, but I have yet to figure out how many cards to give each of them. So far, here are the cards:

Hero Fumble Deck (Draw when a Hero rolls a Black Shield on the wild die.)

Near Fumble!
Your weapon flies out of your hand, but you cough it just in time! Beyond that, nothing unusual happened. And beyond the normal outcome of the fight, the only thing hurt was your pride.

Weapon Drops!
The monster knocks the weapon from your hand, and it falls to the ground! If you have a dagger on hand, you may use until you defeat all adjacent monsters, when it is safe to retrieve your weapon. If no dagger is available, then you must use your fists (one combat die, with a White Shield counting as a hit). Place a marker below the Hero's base noting the dropped weapon. As long as there are no adjacent enemies, a Hero or monster may pick it up just by moving over it. If a monster picks it up, it will carry it, and they both disappear when any Hero loose sigh of it.

Weapon Brakes!
You hit too hard on the enemy and your weapon snaps in half! Your weapon has been rendered useless! If you have a dagger on hand, you may use it until you defeat all adjacent monsters, when it is safe to draw a better weapon. If no dagger is available, then you must use your fists (one combat die, with a White Shield counting as a hit). Unless otherwise stated, Artifact weapons do not brake, but just drops.

Shield Brakes!
A hard blow smashes your shield into splinters! Your shield has been rendered useless!

Dazed!
With a savage blow to the head, you struggle to keep your balance! You loose your loose your next attack, as your recover. If you have a helmet, the effects maybe ignored by rolling a White Shield on a single combat die. If you roll a Black Shield, then the helmet is busted!

Foot Caught!
Your foot falls between the cracks in the floor, and your are stuck in one spot! You can attack (or a cast spell) normally, but the next time you move, your can only pull yourself free.

Clumsy Swing!
Your attack was so poorly executed, that you decadently hit yourself with your own weapon! You loose 1 Body Point, unless you can avoid it with Plate Mail armor, by rolling a White Shield on a single combat die.

Found an Opening!
The monster positions itself in a way that leaves it wide open to attack, and you make your strike! The monster is unable to defend ageist your attack. If you fail to roll any skulls, you inflict at least 1 Body Point on the monster.

Monster Fumble Deck (Draw when a monster rolls a Black Shield on the wild die.)

Near Fumble!
The monster trips over itself and nearly drops its weapon, but unfortunately it quickly rights itself for battle! Beyond the minor fumble, nothing else happened.

Weapon Brakes!
You managed to smash the enemy's weapon! It will keep fighting with a dagger, at one combat die, until it brakes free from combat. After that, it would draw a sidearm at one less combat die then normal (at a minimum of 1 - a dagger). Animals and undead monsters are not effected by this, as they don't need weapons! Monsters noted for using Artifact weapons are also not effected.

Shield Brakes!
You hit the monster so hard, it's shield bursts into splinters! If it has a shield, then it looses one defense die.

(Monsters like Goblins, Orcs and Fimirs may be fitted with a shield for an extra die of defense, unless they are armed with a bow or a two-handed weapon - which gives a range attack or an extra attack die.)

Dazed!
With a hard swipe to the head, you wake the foul creature see stars! The monster loose it's next attack, as it recovers. Full-armored and undead monsters, as well as creatures made of stone or metal are immune to this effect.

Foot Caught!
The monster's foot falls between the cracked floor, and is stuck! It can attack (or a cast spell) normally, but the next time it moves, it can only pull itself free.

Clumsy Swing!
The monster trips and falls on its own blade! It loose 1 Body Point - killing most monsters! Full-armored and unarmed (animal and undead) monsters are immune to this effect.

Found an Opening!
You foolishly left yourself open to attack, and you get hit! You are unable to defend ageist the attack. If the monster fails to roll any skulls, it inflict at least 1 Body Point on the Hero.

Random Event Deck (Draw when the EWP rolls a Black Shield during the Random Event Phase. Use marked tokens in a cup if you have to choose a random hero.)

Wandering Monster!
As you are exploring, a monster stalks you and attacks! The EWP places the wandering monster (as listed in the Quest Book) on any square next to a random Hero. The monster attacks before the Heroes can react!

Hazard!
The ground beneath your feet gives way! One random Hero looses 1 Body Point.

Bag of Treasure!
A random Hero stumble on a bag with something in it. You open in up to see wants inside! Draw a card from the Treasure Deck. It it was a Hazard! card, then the Hero was bitten by a snake. If it was a Wandering Monster! card, then the Hero was bitten by a rat, and the shout attacked a wandering monster.

Foot Caught!
Your foot got caught in a simple snare trap that is surprisingly strong! You can attack (or a cast spell) normally, but the next time you move, your can only pull yourself free.

Torch Blew Out!
As you where exploring, a strong gust of wind blew-out your touches! You are all now engulfed in total darkness! The Heroes can still act normally, but for this turn, their visibility is limited to all adjacent (and diagonal) spaces around them. They cannot target distant monsters with range weapons or spells, until they get get their torches re-lit.

An Old Blade!
The Hero finds a discarded knife, shaft-less spearhead or broken sword. One random Hero gets a free dagger!

Lone Warrior
You encounter the soul survivor another band of brave adventurers. Before he leaves the dungeon, he gives the Heroes info about an yet explored room he was in. At anytime in the Quest, the players may ask about the contents of a single, unexplored room. This will reveal all the monsters and furniture, but not treasure, traps or secret doors.

Loose Change!
Some wandering monster must have dropped it's coin-pouch. One random Hero gets 5 gold coins!

Healing Salve!
The Heroes found some discarded herbal cream used by green-skin shamans to heal wounded troops. It it drying out fast, so you have to use it soon. There is enough to heal 1d6 worth of Body Points, but maybe distributed among the Heroes in any way they wish.

Ghostly Dancer!
A strange shadowy figure of a nude woman dances slightly beyond the edge of your torchlight! The figure may not be targeted by weapons or spells. The dancing is so captivating, that it puts all the male Heroes into a trance! Each Hero must roll a Combat Die for each Mind Point they possess. If any die rolls a White Shield, then the Hero brakes free from the trance. Otherwise, the Hero cannot do anything until he frees himself on a later turn. Female Heroes are immune to the trance.

(For more girl-centric games, the Ghostly Dancer! card maybe replaced by Sparkly Vampire!, which as the same basic effect, despite having flavor-text that stretches for five damn pages! )

Demon Possessed!
One random Hero has been overtaken by an evil spirit! The Hero must roll a Combat Die for each Mind Point he possess. If any die rolls a White Shield, then he successfully exorcised the demon. Otherwise, the Hero is under the control of the EWP, and will attack the other Heroes, until he brakes the control on a later turn.

Helpful Clues!
The heroes see makings made by a previous adventurer, noting hidden dangers or passageways in the area. On this turn, the heroes may choose which room or corridor they are in. that contains the marking. The markings will show all the traps and secret doors in that area, as if searched for. Monsters would not impeded this.

Treasure Map!
The heroes find a map to a treasure chest within the dungeon! This would note what is found in the chest, including any traps, and it location. Place the chest on the board. A clue would also lead no a hidden compartment with 100 additional gold coins in it. The EWP choose the chest. The chest would likely be a yet discovered chest, over any discovered chests. If there are no chests in the Quest, then the treasure is in the throne, if present. Otherwise, the map makes note of treasure that is long gone.

For Beernut's system (which I followed this past weekend as DM), if you roll double the shields required, you can immediately do a counter attack. This can go for a few rolls, because nothing stops the monster from countering too if they get double defense! Of course, this happens much more often with higher monsters.

Would do a 2 D10 roll and have 100 results in a table with many "nothing happens" results. But after reading Daedalus' comments I agree that a pack of cards is definitely more Heroquest. A stack of 50 or so encounter cards would be great, with effects as suggested by Malcadon above.

Ethica wrote:But after reading Daedalus' comments I agree that a pack of cards is definitely more Heroquest. A stack of 50 or so encounter cards would be great, with effects as suggested by Malcadon above.

I recently started playing space crusade. This has a deck of 'alien event' cards that work in this way. They are fun and add something different to each quest but can get repetitive.
I would agree that a deck of cards is the most 'Heroquest' way to do this.

It's breaks, not brakes
Would like to see those cards!

The Road Warrior wrote:

Ethica wrote:But after reading Daedalus' comments I agree that a pack of cards is definitely more Heroquest. A stack of 50 or so encounter cards would be great, with effects as suggested by Malcadon above.

I recently started playing space crusade. This has a deck of 'alien event' cards that work in this way. They are fun and add something different to each quest but can get repetitive.
I would agree that a deck of cards is the most 'Heroquest' way to do this.

I'd say a deck of 52 would be great, but it's a lot of printing. Seems like an Artscow project. I had come up with about 34 card entries. I'd use doubles and maybe triples to complete it and create relative rarity of certain events.

To help out with repetitiveness, Quest notes could contain entries that are subtituted for specific cards. A certain series of events could then build up from the notes as the keyed cards were drawn. A Quest would then have locations and events to flesh it out. For instance, the first event note could be an escaped prisoner promising a reward. The second note could be a warning from him of the next room's monsters and/or traps. The third event could be a betrayal or a threat to his life. Each event would be listed with the cards that would trigger the series. The last (or any) event could even be determined by the type of triggering card that was drawn, so that his loyalty wouldn't be certain.

I'm also in favor of the evil wizard player retaining the hand of event cards so that overly-repetitive cards could instead be converted to a check for a wandering monster patrol. Discard an event card and draw from the monster cards. If the wandering monster for the Quest is revealed, 1d3 (or 1d2) show up for some Quest-specific violence.

I foresee another big project in my future

Sjeng wrote:It's breaks, not brakes
Would like to see those cards!

My literacy is not that good. If not for spell-checkers, it would all come out much worst. Whenever I work on anything, I usually just stick with coming up with ideas and/or doing the art for it.

Yeah, they would make great cards. Hell, I want to draw them!

Daedalus wrote:I'd say a deck of 52 would be great, but it's a lot of printing. Seems like an Artscow project. I had come up with about 34 card entries. I'd use doubles and maybe triples to complete it and create relative rarity of certain events.

To help out with repetitiveness, Quest notes could contain entries that are subtituted for specific cards. A certain series of events could then build up from the notes as the keyed cards were drawn. A Quest would then have locations and events to flesh it out. For instance, the first event note could be an escaped prisoner promising a reward. The second note could be a warning from him of the next room's monsters and/or traps. The third event could be a betrayal or a threat to his life. Each event would be listed with the cards that would trigger the series. The last (or any) event could even be determined by the type of triggering card that was drawn, so that his loyalty wouldn't be certain.

I'm also in favor of the evil wizard player retaining the hand of event cards so that overly-repetitive cards could instead be converted to a check for a wandering monster patrol. Discard an event card and draw from the monster cards. If the wandering monster for the Quest is revealed, 1d3 (or 1d2) show up for some Quest-specific violence.

Great ideas! I like them!

With repetitiveness, it would also be nice to see some repeat cards have differing flavor-texts. If I had the means to print-out my own Treasure cards, I would alter the standard Treasure deck to allow for more unique descriptions. (That might be why the Heroes never find money on the bodies of fallen monsters, but why there are a lot of piles of greasy old rags on the ground with money in it: They never wash their clothing, so when they discard them on the floor, they forget to check their pockets for loose change. )

I can see a deck with a number of cards for a single wandering monster, and one (or a few) card(s) for a patrol of wandering monsters - akin to triggering a Summon Orcs spell, but with fewer monsters summoned.

The Road Warrior wrote:

I foresee another big project in my future

Oh...

Hell...

Yeah!

Great card-back, by the way!