Fortitude Saves?

[SirRick]

[This topic was moved from Board index ‹ HeroQuest Rooms ‹ General HeroQuest Discussion on 7/2/16.]

After reading a thread about the Dragon Strike game i was considering how to incorporate the Death Knight's paralysis ability on a successful attack into HeroQuest rules. A lot of spells in the game require Mind saves depending on the character's remaining Mind Points.

Could the same thing be done with Body Points for the purpose of a Physical save? Such as being able to resist the death knight's paralysis, or resisting getting turned into a vampire, or other such effects? Obviously this would not have a place in the current offical quests, but could see use in custom quest packs.

The mechanics would be the same: "Roll a red die for each of your remaining body points, if a 6 is rolled, you resist the effect".

Seems like a good idea to me. What does everyone think? Has anyone used this or a similar mechnic before?

[QorDaq]

There are essentially three saving throw mechanics that exist now (as I recall)

Type 1: Basically the type of roll you are talking about. Which there is no reason not to use for BP in special cases. However, in general Characters tend to have more relative BP than MP and it is more fluid in a given game than is MP... So it might be a little less predictable. Back when I used to play HQ regularly (early 90s), custom potions and certain other special saves were handled in this manner (Petrification if I recall correctly).

Tyoe 2: Rolling against a stat on 2D6 (Target roll is stat value or below). For custom stuff, I think we occasionally went up to 3 or even 4 Dice.

Type 3: Roll a target number on a d6 independent of stats (5+ on a D6 or what have you).

All of these have wiggle room and can be used in a variety of ways and for different purposes. But in general I always figured Mind Points were good for Magic resistance checks and Body was better for physical effects, regardless of which type of roll was used. But in the final analysis each likely has it's place depending on what you are wanting to accomplish.

Great thing about HQ is the flexibility inherent in it's very simple base system.

maj!

[mukami]

You could try contested rolls, 2d6 plus the attackers mp to 2d6 plus your current mp.

[Bareheaded Warrior]

2D6 might be a little strong and make the outcome too random perhaps D6+MP would be a better balance

[mitchiemasha]

ToM... Test of Mind... Roll equal or lower than your mind value on 1d6 to resist. Bad for Barbs, not so for Wizard.

I've already incorporated ToM into quite a few mechanics, like Sneak, Tame Beast etc. No extra rolls for a Hero wishing to use a ToM Skill that they have. They simply sacrifice a rolled movement die lower than their MP.

With 'Tame Beast', a Hero has to sacrifices 1 MP as well. The EW must roll equal or lower than the Monsters MP on 1d6 to resist. The Monster will remain under the control of the Hero until it passes a ToM. The EW rerolls each turn. Sacrificing the MP limits the amount of attempts a Hero gets, making each one less likely. It also gives the benefit of low rolls being useful. With Goblins easy to control for a full quest, Chaos Warrios, not so.

The sacrificing a rolled movement d6 mechanic is used for other things, like 'Give' 'Change Weapon' 'Climb' etc. So made perfect sense to link it in. It's an unlock for extra actions. Keeping everything simple and the same.

Here's a link viewtopic.php?f=143&t=3281 to the thread with my 2 page rule mod download init.

[torilen]

When I implement a check or save like that, I usually do this:
Roll a red die for each Body Point you currently have. You must roll a 5 or 6 (or just 6)
on a number of dice shown in the monster's description. The monster would have a number
of dice that must be successful. This way, you could have lesser saves and stronger saves
needed.

For a Death Knight, for example, I might require that at least 2 dice be successful. Even
a wizard would half at least half a chance with that.

[Daedalus]

After reading a thread about the Dragon Strike game i was considering how to incorporate the Death Knight's paralysis ability on a successful attack into HeroQuest rules. A lot of spells in the game require Mind saves depending on the character's remaining Mind Points.

Could the same thing be done with Body Points for the purpose of a Physical save? Such as being able to resist the death knight's paralysis, or resisting getting turned into a vampire, or other such effects? Obviously this would not have a place in the current offical quests, but could see use in custom quest packs.

The mechanics would be the same: "Roll a red die for each of your remaining body points, if a 6 is rolled, you resist the effect".

Seems like a good idea to me. What does everyone think? Has anyone used this or a similar mechnic before?

Sure, your idea sounds like it can work. If you like it, why not? Like QorDaq mentioned, you'll need to deal with the unpredictability of a current Body Point score in combat. For me, I would go with Mind Points.

The Death Knight's ability states, "It's attack paralyzes any living target for 1 turn, unless the victim rolls a successful Save vs. Magic...." To save, a hero needs to roll a 6 or higher on either a d8 (Warrior, Thief), d10 (Elf), or d12 (Dwarf, Wizard.) Those numbers don't convert evenly to HQ Heroes too well, but using Mind Points is the better fit over Body Points overall. I'd say that's because a Save vs. Magic favors a magically strong Wizard, not a physically powerful Warrior.

In Hero Quest, magically strong relates to Mind Points. From p. 8 of the North American Instruction Booklet: "Mind Points They reflect the Hero's wisdom, intelligence and resistance to magical influence." That's what their there for--why not use them? The closest paralyzation match, the Chaos spell Cloud of Chaos, does just that.

[Goblin-King]

It is also worth to consider that the game is heavily skewed towards needing BP to survive rather than MP.
Every single monster will stab you for your BP. Not many casts spells or have special abilities.
The already weak wizard will become even weaker if he can't even resist magical abilities.

[SirRick]

@Daedalus
@Goblin-King

Both good points. You are right that body points fluctuate a lot more than mind points. I've seen plenty of times a hero take four body points of damage in one attack (usually the elf), so going from full health to mortally wounded can happen so fast.
Heroes may get screwed over if they are required to make body saves after some already bad dice rolling.

[cynthialee]

You could try contested rolls, 2d6 plus the attackers mp to 2d6 plus your current mp.

I smell a World of Darkness player perhaps?



Back on point:
When I call on "Body Checks" to simulate these types of things I have the hero roll combat dice of Maximum Body Points, not current body points. If they roll a Black Shield (which is the same as rolling D6) they survive, avoid damage, run fast enough...what ever the check is for they make it. No black shield and you fail....