HQ: Heroes & Villains (knightkrawler) - DISCUSSION

[clmckay]

For me...if a hero dies alone, the monster loots his body. If the monster gets awayor survives, well that's the heroes fault for splitting up or otherwise boneheaded.

Never once had a hero complain about it. I never complained when it happened to me. Makes the game much more fun, for a much longer timespan. Also helps with powercreep on both sides of the board.

Games that are too coddled are not fun or challenging for either side. But to each their own.

[knightkrawler]

Well, I talked to my players specifically about that topic today.
They never had a problem using the rule and when talked to about it they basically went "What Whitebeard said".

[Anderas]

In the end, that's the most important point of all. If your players like it that way, just keep it that way.

[knightkrawler]

In the end, that's the most important point of all. If your players like it that way, just keep it that way.

But, see, I'll offer the game up here to download for anyone. So it counts if at least some people will like it. The more the better.
Maybe I'll take Cynthia's POV and make an optional rule of it. There are quite a few in there, anyway, and the modular houserule thing is something many of us have had in the backs of their heads, too.
Retaining the gold also makes sense during questpacks that don't allow for buying equipment in between quests. A new hero then 'inherits' a sum of money that they must use for purchasing. No remainder sum is taken into their first quest, in that case.

[knightkrawler]

Next excerpt.
in places, graphics are gonna replace sizeable chunks of the explanations and definitions, like with corridor sections and the types of adjacency.
Parts of those read horrible, I know.
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Gameplay, Movement & Space

a) Rounds & Turns

As most other boardgames do, HQ – Heroes & Villains builds on rounds and turns. Gameplay begins with the player to the left of Morcar and continues clockwise. Then each hero makes his turn, after which it is Morcar's turn. Thus, a round is completed; a round consists of one turn for each hero on the board plus one for Morcar. These rounds continue as long as at least one hero is on the board.

To lose a turn means a figure may neither move nor take an action.

If at least one hero completes the mission, the heroes as a group have won the quest. Only if all of them die, the quest must be repeated.

Rolling Dice for Turn Orders (OPTIONAL)
After a round is completed, each player rolls a D6. The player with the highest number has the first turn for that round, the player with the lowest number the last. Roll a second time if two or more had the same number. You might want to acquire some more dice because this variant is easier to keep track of if each player has an own die to keep in front of him or even two to further include movement rolls, while you are at it.

Tactical Hero Turns (OPTIONAL)
If the hero players don't tend to draw out decisions and tactical play, Morcar may allow them to decide on the turn order for any given round between them. Use an hourglass or a stopwatch for the players to make up their mind. The complete turn order has to be decided on at the beginning of the round and cannot be changed. Morcar has his turn last.

Each player may play their turn in one of these two orders:

MOVE and then TAKE ONE ACTION
or
TAKE ONE ACTION and then MOVE

A figure cannot use part of their movement points, then take their action, then use more movement points. They can also not take part of their action, then move, then take the rest of their action. The consequences of an action take effect immediately.

Heroes may take one of the following actions each turn.
Attack - Cast a Spell - Use a Skill - Search for Treasure - Search for Secret Doors - Search for Traps - Disarm a Trap
Villains may take one of the following actions each turn.
Attack - Cast a Spell
Villains cannot take any other action listed for the heroes.
For both a hero and a villain to cast a spell or to use a skill, they must have the corresponding spell or skill card in their deck.

After a player has completed their turn, they flip over their turn marker from green circle up to red cross up. As soon as the round has been completed, all players flip over their turn markers back to green circle up. The green circle means 'have yet to take my turn...', the red cross means 'have taken my turn...' for the current round.

During your turn, you, Morcar, may move and take one action or take one action and move with each of villain that is currently on the board and has at least one body point left. This means that your turn is made up of the individual turns of as many villains as you have at your disposal at the beginning of your turn. Always complete the turn of a villain before you start the next villain's turn. Do not seperate movement from action of any villain as each hero does not seperate their movement from their action.

Alternating Hero/Morcar Turns (OPTIONAL)
To play the game with a tactical twist, implement individual villain turns in between hero turns. To be precise, after a hero has taken their entire turn (including a passed turn where the hero does neither move nor take an action), Morcar takes one complete turn with one villain. During a round, each villain may of course only take one turn. Thus, the turn order might look like this: Warrior – Ork1 – spellcaster – Templar 3 – Adept – Templar 1 – Quester – Revenant 2 – Ork 5 – Goblin 4 and so on. Use the villains' base inscriptions and the Villain Tracker to keep up.
[The Villain Tracker is a word document appendix]


b) Figures & Squares

The game board has a grid pattern dividing it into equally large squares. Each figure occupies exactly one square and a square may never contain more than one figure. No figure may move into a square occupied by another figure except if that figure's player expressly allows it.

Distances are counted in squares in such a way that you count each square orthogonally adjacent to the last while moving into it with your figure. You may change direction at any point while moving.

Two squares touching edge to edge are orthogonally adjacent. They are at a distance of one square (movement point).
Two squares touching at only one corner are diagonally adjacent. They are at a distance of two squares (movement points).
A square is never considered adjacent to any other square that is part of a different room or corridor section except when two squares on opposite sides of a door or secret door touch. You cannot move through walls. Only through a door standing on top of a wall or through a secret door adjacent to it may you enter a room.

The clause 'a square [some one, something] occupies/is occupying' is often stylized to '[some one, something]'. A figure figuratively speaking fills out all the surface of the square it is occupying and is thus congruent with it in meaning. For example, 'a square adjacent to you' means 'a square adjacent to the square you are occupying', thus taking into account all above rules for figures and squares, relations between squares, and gameplay.

Markers and Tokens, whose applications and effects you should look up in the legend titles for them, do not fill out a square. Figures can occupy squares containing markers.


c) Rooms & Corridors

On the board, the white frames seperating individual rooms represent walls. A room on the board is only considered part of a quest if its color on the map is white. If its color is dark gray it is considered solid rock.

Outside and all around the rooms there are interconnected corridor sections. All of these have the same gray stoney design on the board. In maps, only those parts of corridors that have a light gray color are considered part of the quest. The dark gray areas are considered solid rock as dark gray rooms are. Most of the time, corridor parts that are part of the map are seperated from those that are solid rock by rubble.

The corridor sections as mapped out above are seperate areas. Blocked squares that seperate a corridor section in two or more act as such concerning the sections and block line of sight.
Squares on corners and crossings are in two or more corridor sections at once, being in line of sight from different directions. Morcar sets up their contents as soon as a hero gains line of sight to them for the first time.

Usually there is always an entrance into and an exit out of the quest. For all the quests in Trials & Tribulations, the staircase represents both. In order to win a quest, at least one hero must complete the mission given by Mentor and reach the staircase to exit the quest. Villains cannot move onto the staircase.

[Trials & Tribulations is going to be the title of my first questbook]

[cynthialee]

You know if you go with the approach that the looting hero keeps all goods taken from the fallen, then the next replacement hero is not getting anything and you still have your control.

[Big Bene]

Now, how explain in-rules to go with BB's suggestion? Difficult to implement this and there's no precedent elsewhere in the rulebook. In the 1st EU edition of HQ, was the rule that you couldn't move into the same square twice during the same round (to keep heroes from opening doors and then retreating, probably) explained anyhow? Because that is my precedent for a rule that is pure mechanics without any "logic" or "realism" presented.

Well, but that's exactly what's the problem here. This rule has been questioned here in the Inn because of the lack of an in-game explanation. "Why should a hero not move back if he wants to?" As I said, for every topic of the rules, there are always the two sides of game mechanics and ingame logic. There are some rules in the original ruleset which are pure game mechanics without any regard for "realism", but they are few. Perhaps, in some cases, there's no other way, but I would say, keep them as few as possible. It adds to the atmosphere of the game. Your player's may not complain, but it seems Cynthia's would do. As I have no active group running, I can't speak for myself. Personally, I have no problem accepting a necessary, working rule wihtout explanation, but when the author takes this little extra step to give a good explanation, I like it all the better.

Now to the new excerpt:

The complete turn order has to be decided on at the beginning of the round and cannot be changed. Morcar has his turn last.

What happens if they don't make up their mind in time?

Each figure occupies exactly one square and a square may never contain more than one figure. No figure may move into a square occupied by another figure except if that figure's player expressly allows it.

That's confusing for someone who doesn't know the orirginal rules. You should perhaps explain it a bit further:
Each figure occupies exactly one square and a square may never contain more than one figure at the and of a turn. No figure may move into a square occupied by another figure en course of it's movement except if that figure's player expressly allows it.

I'm not an English native speaker, either, so the following points may be or not be valid:

The game board has a grid pattern dividing it into equally large squares.

I'd say, "equally sized squares" would sound better. "Equally large" would mean they are very big, not just some, but all of them.

The clause 'a square [some one, something] occupies/is occupying' is often stylized to '[some one, something]'.

The term "clause" is somewhat irritating here, as it means not only "sentence", but also "near to". Heaving just read the paragraph about adjactant squares etc., players would tend to have the meaning "near to" coming to their head. At least this was true for me, I had to read the start of this sentence twice. I would recommend the term "sentence" instead of "clause".

[Count Mohawk]

Each figure occupies exactly one square and a square may never contain more than one figure. No figure may move into a square occupied by another figure except if that figure's player expressly allows it.

That's confusing for someone who doesn't know the orirginal rules. You should perhaps explain it a bit further:
Each figure occupies exactly one square and a square may never contain more than one figure at the and of a turn. No figure may move into a square occupied by another figure en course of it's movement except if that figure's player expressly allows it.

That last sentence might make a little more sense if you flip it from negative to positive: "Figures may only pass through a square occupied by another figure if that figure's player expressly allows it." Also, saying "pass through" rather than "move into" further highlights that two figures cannot share a square.

The clause 'a square [some one, something] occupies/is occupying' is often stylized to '[some one, something]'.

The term "clause" is somewhat irritating here, as it means not only "sentence", but also "near to". Heaving just read the paragraph about adjactant squares etc., players would tend to have the meaning "near to" coming to their head. At least this was true for me, I had to read the start of this sentence twice. I would recommend the term "sentence" instead of "clause".

That's actually a phrase, not a clause. There's no verb in it. [/grammernazi]

[Big Bene]

to occupy?

[Count Mohawk]

to occupy?

You'd think so, but "occupies" here is actually being used as a modifier on "the square", which makes it a pseudo-adjective rather than a proper verb. (It answers the question of "which square?" rather than "what does this square do?".)

(Sorry for derailing your thread, KK)