New Evil Wizard Fun: Chaos Counters

[mitchiemasha]

Yeah, it's not a good idea to just place traps any where at any point. I like the idea of a trap being bought but there needs to be conditions. Changing the dice roll to anything would be too steep but Fate re-rolls is quite a common feature from other games, it's in AHQ.

In AHQ the Tokens are Ambush, Fate, Special Character, Trap, Escape and Wondering Monster. Here's some ideas I had for modding them into HQ.

Ambush, this token can be activated when a Hero re-enters an emptied room or corridor. The monsters of that room or corridor are replaced, excluding special characters.
Character, this token can be activated when a room is revealed. The DM can bring a special character, Like ‘Zargons Hero’ into play. The Special Character is placed in the newly revealed room
Escape, this token can be activated during any Heroes turn and allows any 1 monster to move up to its movement value away from the Heroes.
Fate, this token can be activated to re-roll any 1 combat die in attack or defence.
Trap, this token can be activated when a Hero opens a door and works the same as a Trap Treasure card,
Wondering Monster, this token can be activated during any Heroes turn and works the same as the Wondering Monster Treasure card.

if anyone can think of other effects that suit those titles, i'm all ears.

Trap might be a lil steep, a 1CD roll in defence might be a better idea. I went with the same as Treasure deck to save space on the rules write up. Same as Wondering Monster, originally this placed a monster at the entrance, like a returning monster or the furthest corner of any revealed room. Then i thought why change the rules, if Wondering Monsters already exist in the game, it would be best to keep the rules the same.

[JasonMCM]

My original idea was to implement the AHQ tokens into HQ, but as I don't own them and do not have the money to purchase or print them (Nor will I be getting any money anytime soon unless the mega millions decides that it likes me...) I figured I would do the next best thing; change the rules so that I can use stuff I already own.

[quote=mitchiemasha]Trap, this token can be activated when a Hero opens a door and works the same as a Trap Treasure card,[/quote]
I would vote for changing this to as follows
Trap: This token can be activated when a Hero opens a door and works the same as a Spear Trap. Only one Trap token can be played per door.
This give the hero a 50% chance to not take damage and makes it so that a Hero cannot be insta-killed if Zargon has a hand full of these tokens.

Also Ambush could be a little strong, but then again I don't remember a lot of backtracking, because we played with the insta-exit rule. (All heroes want out and no monsters on the board = quest done.) so it might balance out.

Character needs a lot of work on the Evil Wizard's part. Zargon showing up in Q1 just doesn't seem right, and I suggest throwing in some minibosses (like Gorp the Goblin Mercenary, or Track the Fimir Scout) Stats would be needed for them and they would have to have special rewards because they could possibly change the whole difficulty level of the dungeon.

[mitchiemasha]

Rewording traps to 'same as spear traps' is a good idea, i'll do that. I never thought about the EWP using multiple traps on 1 door, this is a problem. Although, if the EWP has lots of these tokens, the Heroes deserve to die as they will of been playing badly.

Is Zargons Hero meant to be Zargon? I though he was just another special character. It would make for an interesting plot twist, the day the Heroes ventured into 1 of the easiest dungeons just happened to be the day Zargons Hero was in town. Quite unlucky but if they beat him, quite a bonus, no doubt great rewards and treasures!

Another idea could be that the Special Character/Mini Boss matches the Wondering Monster of that Quest but with US BP (we play UK), possibly different weapons like a bow, spear or even magic. This way if Zargons Hero is a Mega Boss, he could only be played if a Chaos Warrior was the Wondering Monster, fixing the problem of the Heroes facing a too strong Boss early on, bringing Gorp and Track into play. If the EWP gets a 2nd or 3rd SC token when it's the same Wondering Monster, this could be that character returning, "The Heroes were mistaken by Gorp death as he returns alive and well, ready to fight, filled with vengeance for the scars you left him". Battling against the same Boss through multiple Quests could result in some interesting narratives. Especially if through some freaky luck of drawing DM tokens sees a specific character Plague you entire Campaign.

The trick with Ambush is, If the EWP has any tokens left, it's a bad idea to be going into any emptied rooms to do those last minute treasure searches. You want to be getting out as fast as possible and sticking to corridors or rooms another Hero is already in. Now you need a strategy to get out. This spices up the end game for both players, a weak spot of the original mechanics.

[Daedalus]

...In AHQ the Tokens are Ambush, Fate, Special Character, Trap, Escape and Wondering Monster. Here's some ideas I had for modding them into HQ.

Ambush, this token can be activated when a Hero re-enters an emptied room or corridor. The monsters of that room or corridor are replaced, excluding special characters.
Character, this token can be activated when a room is revealed. The DM can bring a special character, Like ‘Zargons Hero’ into play. The Special Character is placed in the newly revealed room
Escape, this token can be activated during any Heroes turn and allows any 1 monster to move up to its movement value away from the Heroes.
Fate, this token can be activated to re-roll any 1 combat die in attack or defence.
Trap, this token can be activated when a Hero opens a door and works the same as a Trap Treasure card,
Wondering Monster, this token can be activated during any Heroes turn and works the same as the Wondering Monster Treasure card.

if anyone can think of other effects that suit those titles, i'm all ears.

Here's some variations:

Ambush Use this token to allow Z/M to delay placing the monsters in a room until his own turn. (The Wandering Monster and Character tokens can instead be used to discourage opportunistic searches at the end of a Quest.)
Character Use this token to place a special character into a room when it is revealed or re-entered. Use the Wandering Monster for the Quest, but increase all stats by 1. (This keeps things balanced and works simply with both EU and NA rules. Quest notes could subtitute an appropriate, one-time, special-character at any point, such as a Chaos Sorcerer or Gorp.)
Escape Use this token at any time to allow one monster to make an extra move, even through a Hero's square space. (Offensive options are provided while retaining its defensive quality.)
Fate Use this token to allow one monster to reroll any failed die rolls. (My opinion is one rerolled die feels underpowered, particularly for a black shield. Magic saves are now included.)
Trap Use just this token when a door is opened to place an arrow trap on the empty square space beyond. (There may already be a can't-be-found trap beyond the door on the map. Using the established can't-be-found arrow trap is meant to limit damage to only one instance with the empty-square restriction. The "just this token" restriction prevents saving all four trap tokens for 1 door. Killing a Hero who had no chance to survive opening a door pisses off players.)
Wandering Monster Use this token on a Hero's turn to place two Wandering Monsters per the normal rules. (Maybe two is overkill. I was thinking of making end-of-Quest treasure searches more costly without your ambush rule. Perhaps one monster is better, but houserule end-of-Quest treasure searches result in double Wandering Monsters for both tokens and Treasure Cards.)

[mitchiemasha]

With out hijacking Jasons thread too much...
Ambush. I'm loving the delay placement idea. It makes perfect sense and is a very simple mechanic. I hadn't even considered this as a possibility a total new idea to me, thank you.
Character. It looks like that is where I'm going with the idea, wondering monsters but captain, chieftain. The +1 to stats makes it easy to implement, good one.
Escape. I'll add the the through Hero but might keep it as during a Heroes turn. I'll do some more testing.
Fate. Agreed, when i play tested it, the reroll of 1 die was almost pointless especially as there's only 1 black shield.
Trap. Yes, 4 trap tokens is a problem. I'd changed the idea to a spear trap for a save chance but it would still be over powering if hit with 4. I had presumed the Heroes would of opened all doors before 6 tokens collected. For 4 to be traps would be quite rare but still possible. i'll have more thought on this one.
Wondering Monster. 2 might be a lil over powering, Just 1 on it's own makes this quite a strong token, especially since i went for the, Same as treasure card instead of the placement rule I originally had. it's practically a free attack for the EWP.

Thank you for your thoughts. I'm going to amend the ideas right now.

[Daedalus]

You're right about limiting a Wandering Monster token to 1 monster. I was mainly throwing out an alternative for the sake of completion.

I'd caution you about the Ambush ability. An ambush token will often be saved for rooms stacked with monsters, so lone Heroes can easily be surrounded and killed while the Wizard will be harder to protect. This will likely lead to cautious Heroes setting up coordinated defensive positions against the wall in empty rooms. That's how to play Warhammer Quest, where every room is set up this way. Heck, they don't even have to enter, and the ambush will be spoiled in a door-guarding action. This may not be what you are after. If you set up a monster or two early as bait (hopefully with cover), then Heroes won't suspect the imminent ambush and will likely enter to attack.

It also might help open up Hero entry positions if ambushes weren't so likely to kill. Consider setting the total Body Points of ambushing monsters to not exceed 3 or 4 times the Wandering Monster's Body Points. This will sometimes automatically leave a monster or two as bait--then you pounce.

[mitchiemasha]

Yeah, Ambush might be too powerful but i really liked the delay placement mechanic. Adding more to it might take away from the simplicity of the idea. Simplicity is 1 of the main parameters of my modding brief.

The thing with the tokens from the Heroes perspective is not knowing what they are. The Heroes want to be playing to minimise the EWPs ability to draw them. If the EWP only has 1 and they fear it an Ambush when it's only fate, playing in fear of that ambush, delaying, positioning on doors etc will enable the EWP to draw more, a bad move

I might not of posted the rules for drawing the tokens in this thread, i'll have a look.