Ye Olde Inn

This idea would work best in an undead dungeon because the monsters need to be automated and that fits nicely with mindless dead monsters. I don't know if there are any solo rules on the site but it shouldn't be too hard to come up with them, just move towards the nearest enemy (random if they're the same distance) and attack. The evil wizard player controls rival heroes that start somewhere else and tries to get the gold and stuff before the main heroes. They're not in any way evil so no heroes can attack each other.

Obviously the evil wizard player is going to know where everything is so to make it a bit fairer the heroes could be given a basic map, or just place all the doors and some of the stuff in the rooms so the board itself becomes the map in a sense. You could do things like placing a treasure chest in the centre of a room and when the door is opened it gets moved to the right spot. You could keep track of any money and items the heroes find if you want to bring them back in later quests. This could be used in HQ25.

If Zargon is going to control the rival heroes, you can do more to give the players a chance.

1) Reduce the distance the rival heroes can move in a turn
2) Give the heroes a head start of a few turns before you start moving the rival heroes
3) Make up some cards for rival heroes that determine what they do on their turn. Zargon can shuffle these before each quest and draws them on his turn. Some cards will have them stay idle that turn (say they encountered a trap that slowed them down, or a member was injured and they needed to help him, etc.) while others might only allow certain characters to move (the Wizard and/or Elf were busy translating so they skipped a turn, the party encountered a small group of monsters so the Barbarian held them at bay to give the others time to advance, etc)
4) You could create a few paths the rival heroes have to follow to get through the dungeon and then draw one of those paths at the start of the quest. This way they aren't always getting the treasure that's closest to them every quest.
5) Just make the race toward one end treasure. This would assume that the rival heroes would have gotten to the rooms on their end of the dungeon first so they have already been cleared out. This would be more of a "you have 'x' number of turns to get to the treasure" type quest though.

Just my thoughts.

I have already done this in Dealing with Death - Quest IV The Vaults. I used random Monsters/Mercenaries in each room so that Morcar does not know exactly what is going to happen before the quest begins.

I'm also currently thinking over a few ideas for a quest pack where the evil wizard has his own objectives in each quest. E.g. The Heroes must sound an alarm/light a warning beacon - The evil wizard must destroy the alarm/warning beacon. The first person to achieve their objective wins the quest and this then effects the next quest.

I think that rival heroes is a really good idea. It makes the game more interesting for the evil wizard player.

StratosVX wrote:If Zargon is going to control the rival heroes, you can do more to give the players a chance.

1) Reduce the distance the rival heroes can move in a turn
2) Give the heroes a head start of a few turns before you start moving the rival heroes
3) Make up some cards for rival heroes that determine what they do on their turn. Zargon can shuffle these before each quest and draws them on his turn. Some cards will have them stay idle that turn (say they encountered a trap that slowed them down, or a member was injured and they needed to help him, etc.) while others might only allow certain characters to move (the Wizard and/or Elf were busy translating so they skipped a turn, the party encountered a small group of monsters so the Barbarian held them at bay to give the others time to advance, etc)
4) You could create a few paths the rival heroes have to follow to get through the dungeon and then draw one of those paths at the start of the quest. This way they aren't always getting the treasure that's closest to them every quest.
5) Just make the race toward one end treasure. This would assume that the rival heroes would have gotten to the rooms on their end of the dungeon first so they have already been cleared out. This would be more of a "you have 'x' number of turns to get to the treasure" type quest though.

Just my thoughts.

1) I'd just start them further away.
2) Same thing.
3) That would work if the evil wizard player still has control of the monsters. You mean basically making the other four heroes autimated instead of the monsters. I'd prefer it the other way round but that way would allow this to be used against monsters other than undead. It could be anyway but it wouldn't work as nicely.
4) A few paths with at least on other path for the main heroes, there wouldn't be enough room on the standard board.
5) I think one path for them that meets up with the main heroes path some time before the main objective room would be best.

The Road Warrior wrote:I have already done this in Dealing with Death - Quest IV The Vaults. I used random Monsters/Mercenaries in each room so that Morcar does not know exactly what is going to happen before the quest begins.

I'm also currently thinking over a few ideas for a quest pack where the evil wizard has his own objectives in each quest. E.g. The Heroes must sound an alarm/light a warning beacon - The evil wizard must destroy the alarm/warning beacon. The first person to achieve their objective wins the quest and this then effects the next quest.

I think that rival heroes is a really good idea. It makes the game more interesting for the evil wizard player.

I think it would be a nice change for the hero players as well. I'll check out The Vaults, random monsters could be good as well, although it would work without them if the Morcar heroes route is fixed until they join up with the main heroes. I really like the idea of the result affecting the next quest.

Zargon already has rival heroes--the monsters. It doesn't matter how strong they are, or what they're actually called, any mobile aggressive agent played the the Evil Wizard is a monster. If you add a new play element to change this to where the EW must actually control an entire party against the heroes what is the actual point of him trying to win? Besides being at a tactical disadvantage of four minds against one, the EW has to work harder and administer more rules while expecting not to be able to win because he's the bad-guy. I think this whole concept is really weak. All the EW has going for him is control of information in the normal game. If you put him under the same stress from uncertainty intended to be felt only by players, you basically change what the game is supposed to actually be.

To accomplish this sort of game you'd need to drop the whole idea of Zargon and make a head-to-head skirmish platform game.

I've thought about using this idea during a quest, but the other party of heroes would be NPC rivals to add some variety. They wouldn't attack the heroes directly, but maybe cast a few spells to slow them down if treasure was at hand. It would add a role playing element and perhaps they would have the option to join them as allies or maybe trade weapons or gold for some sorely needed healing potions or spells. I have a set of Dragon Strike minis and I could use the Barbarian/Dwarf/Elf/Wizard equivalents to represent the alternative heroes.

chaoticprime wrote:Zargon already has rival heroes--the monsters. It doesn't matter how strong they are, or what they're actually called, any mobile aggressive agent played the the Evil Wizard is a monster. If you add a new play element to change this to where the EW must actually control an entire party against the heroes what is the actual point of him trying to win? Besides being at a tactical disadvantage of four minds against one, the EW has to work harder and administer more rules while expecting not to be able to win because he's the bad-guy. I think this whole concept is really weak. All the EW has going for him is control of information in the normal game. If you put him under the same stress from uncertainty intended to be felt only by players, you basically change what the game is supposed to actually be.

To accomplish this sort of game you'd need to drop the whole idea of Zargon and make a head-to-head skirmish platform game.

It's only for the odd quest, it doesn't change what type of game it is. I don't think it's weak at all. It would be an interesting change for the hero players as well to compete against a dm using other heroes against automated monsters.

Blackthorn wrote:I've thought about using this idea during a quest, but the other party of heroes would be NPC rivals to add some variety. They wouldn't attack the heroes directly, but maybe cast a few spells to slow them down if treasure was at hand. It would add a role playing element and perhaps they would have the option to join them as allies or maybe trade weapons or gold for some sorely needed healing potions or spells. I have a set of Dragon Strike minis and I could use the Barbarian/Dwarf/Elf/Wizard equivalents to represent to alternative heroes.

The four Men-At-Arms could be done up to be heroes for this as well.

I like the item trading idea. At the end of the quest they could trade for anything of equal or greater value.

Gold Bearer wrote:

chaoticprime wrote:Zargon already has rival heroes--the monsters. It doesn't matter how strong they are, or what they're actually called, any mobile aggressive agent played the the Evil Wizard is a monster. If you add a new play element to change this to where the EW must actually control an entire party against the heroes what is the actual point of him trying to win? Besides being at a tactical disadvantage of four minds against one, the EW has to work harder and administer more rules while expecting not to be able to win because he's the bad-guy. I think this whole concept is really weak. All the EW has going for him is control of information in the normal game. If you put him under the same stress from uncertainty intended to be felt only by players, you basically change what the game is supposed to actually be.

To accomplish this sort of game you'd need to drop the whole idea of Zargon and make a head-to-head skirmish platform game.

It's only for the odd quest, it doesn't change what type of game it is. I don't think it's weak at all. It would be an interesting change for the hero players as well to compete against a dm using other heroes against automated monsters.

Blackthorn wrote:I've thought about using this idea during a quest, but the other party of heroes would be NPC rivals to add some variety. They wouldn't attack the heroes directly, but maybe cast a few spells to slow them down if treasure was at hand. It would add a role playing element and perhaps they would have the option to join them as allies or maybe trade weapons or gold for some sorely needed healing potions or spells. I have a set of Dragon Strike minis and I could use the Barbarian/Dwarf/Elf/Wizard equivalents to represent to alternative heroes.

The four Men-At-Arms could be done up to be heroes for this as well.

I like the item trading idea. At the end of the quest they could trade for anything of equal or greater value.

Fair enough. My point about them still basically being monsters stands, however. I have a schtick in my Quests where I have Mercenaries appear that you can hire for money or favors.

chaoticprime wrote:I have a schtick in my Quests where I have Mercenaries appear that you can hire for money or favors.

I've done the same thing. In fact, you can read about it here: http://forum.yeoldeinn.com/viewtopic.php?f=161&t=1347

chaoticprime wrote:Fair enough. My point about them still basically being monsters stands, however. I have a schtick in my Quests where I have Mercenaries appear that you can hire for money or favors.

Well they can't attack each other in any way so they're not really monsters. Although another variation would be to do the same thing with a group of monsters, like say the wizards of morcar maybe swappping the necromancer for a chaos sorcerer as their leader if it's against undead. That could be quite interesting.