Ye Olde Inn

Okay...some of you on here know that I've been working on my own game system, based on
and designed after HeroQuest. I'm getting close to finishing it - I looked through it yesterday
and realized I only need to finish typing up the treasures, finish the "role-playing" example,
and make sure the monster list is complete, and it will be done.

I plan to put the project up on kickstarter, mainly so I can get funding for the copyrights and
trademarks that I need, and so I can pay artists. I could wait until I start selling it, but I want
to make sure I don't have any legal issues after I start publishing, and I want to go ahead and
get the artists paid. I plan to start selling on amazon.com, though their create space resource.

Most likely, I will only be seeking a goal of about $7,000 to $10,000. I'll have to double check all
of my costs, as things have changed in the last two years since I last calculated everything.

So...here is what I wanted to ask. I was wondering if you all could help me come up with some
descent rewards and stretch goals. Let me explain this, though: It is just me - there is no assistant,
no co-writers, nothing. And, of course, I have a full time job and kids. So, with that in mind, check
out what I have in mind, and give me any feedback you might have.

REWARDS
level 1 - free pdf file of the rules book, monster book, and spells book. This will be emailed.
level 2 - level 1, except with my scanned autograph on the cover of each book.
level 3 - CD of level 2 pdf's.
level 4 - Hard copy of each book. (books will be paperback, full color cover I believe).
level 5 - level 4, except each book will be autographed...not sure if on cover or first page.

**I thought about making a "thank you" page with backers names as the level 1 reward, but
thought that was a bit cheesy. What are your thoughts on including this just as a given for
any and all backers?
**I could stretch the reward levels by adding in the possibility of getting an adventure or two.
I have a couple of adventures that I could get ready for publishing fairly quickly, I think.

STRETCH GOALS
This is where I need some help. I have no possibilities for this, yet. I have some ideas, but not
sure how viable they would be yet.
1 - each backer gets some game tiles - either those I have made, or from an actual tile producer
(maybe inked adventures - I would buy a copy of the tiles for each backer and include them with
their reward - I would have to talk to inked adventures, first, of course.). If anyone on here would
like to offer up their tiles, also, that would be great.
2 - instead of including adventures/quests in the rewards, make these stretch goals.

That's really all I've got right now. So...thoughts? Any and all thoughts are welcome.

Having backed a decent number of games in the past couple years, here's a few of my own thoughts on this. I hope it helps you in some small way.

It's not cheesy at all to have a thank you page of backers' names. People love seeing their names in books they have. I know I certainly do!

Don't include an adventure as a reward level. Definitely make it a stretch goal. That will make people want the project to succeed well. Or, include a small adventure in the original project, then add a much bigger adventure as a stretch.

Have lots of pictures of the actual product ready to go. Make the effort to have them be high quality, well-lit pictures that show off the game and all its peripherals (like cards, etc.) well. Concept drawings will work if you don't have a prototype to work with, but images definitely help.

Take a look and do some research on a lot of the other game kickstarters that have happened. See how they did their videos and make your just as punchy and interesting. You want to nab the viewer's attention with an entertaining and well-done video. Having a video editor friend would really help here.

Level 1's reward IS NOT free at all. That's incredibly misleading. Backers are giving you money at that level so they expect to be getting that pdf for their money. I know Kickstarter isn't technically a store - you don't "buy" something at a particular reward level....but it happens so often that it's become basically the same.

I highly recommend that you don't scan your autograph. Do it by hand. (Obviously this is for the hard copy level.) People value the little personal touches. Yes, it will take more time, but you are building goodwill and trust with the backers. You can go the extra mile and write a short thank you note with your signature. In the exit survey, when backers give you their mailing address, you can have a question in there for backers to indicate who they want you to make the thank you note to.

The reward levels need to be reworked, I think. Do you have dollar amounts set yet for them? Upgrading a pledge just for a scanned autograph in a pdf isn't very appealing. I doubt very many people will opt for that reward level.

If your art is black and white, leave it that way for the base project. Make color art a stretch goal.

Name your reward levels. Instead of "Level 1" or "Level 2," add a unique and memorable name. Maybe "Level 1" becomes the "Commoner" tier, Level 2 becomes "Noble" and so on.

DICE. People freakin' LOVE dice. Get in touch with Chessex or another die manufacturer and see if you can get a deal for your game's dice in bulk. If it's not included in the base package, then add a set of dice as a stretch goal. If some dice are included, then you can have a stretch goal to make additional dice sets be an optional add-on.

You WILL run into problems. And those problems will cost money to solve. Take a look at your costs - including international shipping which is always very expensive. Now double them. That should give you an idea of how much your initial goal should be.

Be transparent in your communications in updates. Backers like knowing where their money is going and how the project is coming along. And don't forget to thank them frequently, you are standing on their shoulders. Being ungrateful is a quick route to have backers lose faith in you and your work, essentially making it impossible for them to want to back you if you did another project down the line. Having said that, they are also a bit of an impatient lot sometimes. So make sure to explain how you're just one person working on this, so things will naturally take longer than if you were working on the kickstarter project full time with a staff in a warehouse.

I don't know the specifics of your game, so this may or might not apply. People love expanding the base game through stretch goals. Have stretch goals to unlock additional new player classes or monsters or types of treasure or cards. Each one can be a separate stretch goal.

You will also need to realize how much more work it will be to balance all of that together, and how much it would cost to produce, so you can adjust the stretch goal amount accordingly. In my experience, stretch goal amounts tend not to be linear. So for example if your goal is $10,000, your first stretch goal could be $12k, then $15k, then $20k, and so forth.

....I think that's all I can think of at the moment. If I have more, I'll let you know. I hope this helps.

Everything Teldurn says.

Plus:
Present individual pictures, not a stretched out all-inclusive huge picture. Why? Because people can present them on youtube as a Kickstarter tip if they want to do one for you.
I have seen many Kickstarter ads/shoutouts on youtube by fans interested in the campaign that didn't include pictures from the Kickstarter page because in the video nothing would be recognizable, which makes it far less likely that people actually check the campaign out. I don't even know if this was proper English here, I hope you get my idea.

Present some excerpts here. It will only do you good. I, for one, will very very likely put some money into this, just because I know who you are and what you do and why you do it, though I can't promise because of my wavy financials. I think many of us think the same way. I'd love to simply own something you created. Right now, from just your presenting your plan and the little tidbits you've presented in threads here over the years, level 1 and level 4 - if not too outrageously expensive including shipping - are very appealing to me. If I can see quality beforehand, I'll want/need it all the more, spoken as the collector and community member I am. I'm just talking itsy-bitsy examples of charts, text passages to get to know your use of language, a content list, or anything you can give away without giving away too much.

I'm trying very much to encourage you here, without knowing ANYTHING about the financial stuff and the risks (especially the unexpected ones) whatsoever, so tread carefully.
And again, I think I'm with Teldurn about each and every one of his points and tips.

Pretty pictures. Pretty dice. Perhaps pretty cards. Shiny bling attracts the masses. and all of the above

Knightkrawler - I actually have had my game system up for quite a while.
I have done some revisions, adding and taking out some small pieces here and there,
and rewriting a bit...but what you see here is just about what one will find in what
I want to publish.
The biggest changes I've made is the addition to the treasure section. Of course, I will
need to put a final rewrite to the table of contents and index and such...I won't be doing
that until the very, very end, though...I'm sure you can guess why.

Be sure to check out the second page of the rules thread - that gives sample heroes that would
be sort of the equivalent to the basic heroes presented in the HQ board game.

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=879


The spells found here will show you what the spells book will look like, in general. The actual text will
be slightly different, but the format is the same.

viewtopic.php?f=58&t=1212

Now...as far as cards and dice and such...I like the idea of adding those sorts of things as rewards or
stretch goals...and I just might look into adding dice in there. My system, as it is right now, does not
use cards, however. It is designed to be more closely related to a role playing game, with the players
using character sheets for their characters. I've designed the spells to be on "cards" within their spell
groups; owners of the books could photocopy the spells so as to cut them out and give the spell group
cards to the caster using that spell group - I plan to give permission to do this, for personal use only,
of course.

I would probably have to look into a specialty dice company and come up with a really good design for
any dice I included, as the system I've created uses just simple 6-sided dice, with either the little dots
or numbers to indicate the face.

Teldurn, you mentioned not to scan my autograph. I would certainly NOT do that for any hard copy that
a backer received. That would just be phoning it in, in my opinion, and that is not what I am about.
I understand your concern about upgrading a backer level simply for a scanned autograph on a pdf...and
I will probably take that one out. (that's why I posted this thread....to make sure I wasn't making some
horrible reward levels.)

I do not have any dollar amounts as of yet. I wanted to figure out what the rewards and stretch goals were
going to be, calculate my needed goal again, and then set the levels.

Okay...based on some of the feedback, I went and looked at some of the current kickstarters and have come up with the following. Maybe this looks a little better?

level 1 - $1 or more - thank you - your name in the front pages of the basic rules book
level 2 - pdf emailed to you (rules, monsters, spells)
level 3 - pdf on cd
level 4 - level 3, plus hard copy
level 5 - early bird - level 4, autographed
level 6 - level 4 autographed


stretch goals
- hard copies will be signed by artist, as well
- the world around the heroes - this will include deeper information on the economics, and deeper information on the gods of the basic system
- First published quest, complete with game tiles needed to play it, before it goes on sale
- list of character names, along with brief backgrounds and/or personality traits for the characters
- festival expansion pdf (when it is ready) - NOTE - I actually have this about 1/2 done as it is...I am in the process of trying to get some custom tiles made for it.


A note about the 4th stretch goal - the character names - I have over 300 characters, many with some sort of background and/or personality notes. I would put together
20 or 30 of the better characters. These would all be copyrighted, but players could use them for filling out their game world...NPC's and such.

The only KS I ran failed. Can't help you.

My comments in red.

torilen wrote:I would probably have to look into a specialty dice company and come up with a really good design for
any dice I included, as the system I've created uses just simple 6-sided dice, with either the little dots
or numbers to indicate the face.
Usually, most of the custom dice I've seen (even d6s) have the highest number side have a special image. 6 for a d6, 20 for a d20, etc. It's not strictly required, but having unique dice matching the game is...special.

Teldurn, you mentioned not to scan my autograph. I would certainly NOT do that for any hard copy that
a backer received. That would just be phoning it in, EXACTLY! in my opinion, and that is not what I am about.
I understand your concern about upgrading a backer level simply for a scanned autograph on a pdf...and
I will probably take that one out. (that's why I posted this thread....to make sure I wasn't making some
horrible reward levels.)
I'm glad you realize that, on both counts. I have seen some in the past who hadn't.

Okay...based on some of the feedback, I went and looked at some of the current kickstarters and have come up with the following. Maybe this looks a little better?

level 1 - $1 or more - thank you - your name in the front pages of the basic rules book Perfect, this is what I was hoping for.
level 2 - pdf emailed to you (rules, monsters, spells)
level 3 - pdf on cd I'm still having a hard time coming to grips with this option. Something like this might have been fine 5 or 10 years ago, but with today's nearly ubiquitous cloud storage and phones and tablets able to view pdfs, I don't know if many people would be willing to walk around with a physical cd of anything anymore. I personally haven't touched a cd in about 4-5 years. Unfortunately, I'm also having a hard time coming up with a suitable substitute. Sorry.
level 4 - level 3, plus hard copy This is most likely going to be your most popular tier. To really get the most bang, I recommend making stretch goals only apply to this tier and higher. That should tempt lots of people to upgrade to this tier or higher so they can lock in those sweet, sweet stretch goals.
level 5 - early bird - level 4, autographed This should be a very limited number, and at a slightly lower price than level 6, to reward those people who are the most avid fans (or just really lucky to get in on time before it sells out).
level 6 - level 4 autographed Now that I think about it, this tier might compete well with level 4 for popularity, for those people that want to have their game be completely one-of-a-kind.


stretch goals
- hard copies will be signed by artist, as well I love this and have seen it done to great effect. Good call!
- the world around the heroes - this will include deeper information on the economics, and deeper information on the gods of the basic system This should probably be one of the first stretch goals. Give the backers a taste and get them hungry for the really good unlocks!
- First published quest, complete with game tiles needed to play it, before it goes on sale As an alternative option, think about including one quest included in the level 4+ reward tier, and making the stretch goal be a backer-only option of another quest - not something to be sold anywhere else! If people really like a project or brand, they are usually ravenous to get everything there is to get for it, so offering something that is only available to kickstarter will for sure get a couple more dollars closer to unlocking this.
- list of character names, along with brief backgrounds and/or personality traits for the characters
- festival expansion pdf (when it is ready) - NOTE - I actually have this about 1/2 done as it is...I am in the process of trying to get some custom tiles made for it.


A note about the 4th stretch goal - the character names - I have over 300 characters, many with some sort of background and/or personality notes. I would put together 20 or 30 of the better characters. These would all be copyrighted, but players could use them for filling out their game world...NPC's and such. Instead of just listing out a bunch of characters with some personality notes, consider making it a character bio+picture instead. More interesting, and gives it more life, I think.

sorry if I'm missing something, but does this involve miniatures, cards and boards or is it just a printed book?