Ye Olde Inn

Discussion links:

1. Choose your monsters for the 25th Quest Pack

• Beastman (Warrior)
  Ungor
  a) Mv:8 At:2 De:2(2) BP:1 MP:1, short bow
  Gor
  b) Mv:6 At:3 De:3 BP:2 MP:2
  Bestigor
  c) Mv:5 At:4 De:5 BP:2 MP:2
  D) Ability: none simple Beastman, more here

2. Which monster factions do we want in HQ25?

• Beastman
  
  d) Mv:8 At:4 De:2 BP:3 MP:2, more here, more here, more here, more here, more here, more here
  Minotaurs and Centaurs, more here

3. HQ25 - Choose your monsters + stats

• Beastman (Warrior)
  
  e) Mv:7 At:2+2 De:2 BP:2 MP:2, may attack twice or once with 4 AD
  f) Mv:7 At:2+2 De:3 BP:2 MP:2, more here, more here, 2 attacks with both defendable or one 4 AD attack
  g) Mv:6 At:3 De:2 BP:2 MP:2, more here, same again, +1 AD if no move (heavy attack)
  h) Mv:7 At:3 De:3 BP:2 MP:2, more here, more here, more here, immediate counter-attack when BP are reduced to 1
  i) Mv:7 At:3 De:2 BP:2 MP:2, attack same target twice if don't move

HQ25 - The great TO-DO list

• Beastman
  
  h) Mv:7 At:3 De:3 BP:2 MP:2 A Beastman immediately counterattacks when an adjacent Hero reduces its Body Points to 1.

HQ25 monster stats and abilities #2 the Beastman

Beastman

j) Mv:7 At:4 De:2 BP:2 MP:2, more here, more here, more here, more here, more here, counter attacks if wounded but not killed or else counter attacks when attacked in melee
k) Mv:8 At:4 De:2 BP:4 MP:2, +1 AD for every adjacent Beastman
D) Ability: none (already powerful or unique enough as statted)

It's time for Inn members to vote in the second of 6 polls dealing with the six chosen monsters for the HQ25 Quest Pack. Each monster's stats and abilities is to be dealt with its own separate poll. If you're not sure of an entry's description, follow the matching discussion link for a fuller explanation at the original post. You may change your vote.

The Kobold poll helped nail down the stats, but the ability/abilities are still open for voting (choices P-R). Feel free to vote up to 2 times there to identify how you think the Kobolds should use the gang-up ability and weapons.

As with the Kobold topic, feel free to express your views and ideas. Entries can always be added, and the ability may need further voting.

After some waffling back and forth, I voted for option H in the poll. While we have yet to vote on them, the Minotaur is likely to end up with an ability to attack multiple Heroes at once, so we don't need the Beastman to do the same. On the other hand, since the two types of monster are related, having them both have similar abilities would then add to that connection.

Also, I prefer the Beastman with less Defense than Attack rather than having the two stats equal. Otherwise they're basically improved Fimir.

I voted H as well. To me it just seems so incredible flavorful to have the beastman react like... well a wounded beast.
Either you kill him or you only wound him and he goes ballistic on his attacker.

In the future Daedalus, how about making it a multi vote poll?
Have the different stats as the say four first options WITHOUT any abilities.
Then have the different abilities as the next couple of options WITHOUT stats..
Then people put in two votes. One for stats and one for ability.

I would vote H, but for me it is imperative* that AD/DD is either 3/2 or 4/2. I could live with 4/3 as well if it is to be argued that the Kobold already has 2 DD and the Beastman should have a different stat.
That is why I second GK's suggestion for a modular poll.
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Look at what sculpts today look like. No armor, few shields, most wield heavy two-handers or even two weapons. I think the Beastman could be the precedent on AD is more than DD+1.

For Beastman stats, I'm mostly ambivalent as to whether they should be 3/2 or 4/2, but I prefer either to 4/3, which seems to me to be too strong for this sort of monster. If this is a 2 BP monster, I would be more likely to vote for 4/2 than if it was a 3 BP monster.

Count Mohawk wrote:For Beastman stats, I'm mostly ambivalent as to whether they should be 3/2 or 4/2, but I prefer either to 4/3, which seems to me to be too strong for this sort of monster. If this is a 2 BP monster, I would be more likely to vote for 4/2 than if it was a 3 BP monster.

I sign that assessment.

Goblin-King wrote:In the future Daedalus, how about making it a multi vote poll?
Have the different stats as the say four first options WITHOUT any abilities.
Then have the different abilities as the next couple of options WITHOUT stats..
Then people put in two votes. One for stats and one for ability.

Weighing in the comments, this sounds like a good idea. In fact, I've restructured this poll for two votes, which you may change. RECOUNT! Sorry for the PITA effect, but I think the polls will work best as an evolving tool. Vote once for stats, and once for an ability. Both upper and lower-case letters in the poll are still keyed to their respective discussion links.

Note that i) is the same as h) but has 2 DD, not 3. I was swayed and switched my vote to the lower defense value, as I figure a shield can always be added in the Quest Notes.

by the way, don't forget to vote for the Kobold's ability (choices P-R) so we can finish that monster out.

I chose e,E
Gor's should be bad ass.

Count Mohawk wrote:If this is a 2 BP monster, I would be more likely to vote for 4/2 than if it was a 3 BP monster.

This is actually what I was going for, but it wasn't an option.

Regard this post as a vote for At: 4, De: 2, Bp 2 - Counter attacks if wounded but not killed.

I like the counter attack to go along with 2 PB. A At4 counter attack is pretty powerful. It shouldn't trigger too often methinks.

Now I never played Warhammer and I only know the Gors from reading up on them when I got my hands on some miniatures of them. They looked pretty awesome so I incorporated them into my games.
From what I have read about them I think maybe these options are not tough enough. Gor are used as heavy shock troops. This to me says they should have sick attack, and marginal defend. I don't know the Warhammer system, so the numbers made no sense to me, but the spirit of the beast is easily enough to convey. These guys are hard hitters. The way they work is they don't often need to defend as they kill before the enemy has a chance to respond.
Some like to use shock troops as a softener against larger enemy positions, or to weaken enemy morale; but in my opinion which is often not so humble, this type of unit is best reserved for small engagements to take a marginally defended enemy position and hold it for a short time. Or to pacify an enemy population of civilians with a show of gruesome force. When they show up it is a slaughterfest.

Rethinking it:
Move: 8
Attack: 4 +1 per adjacent allied Gor. (yes this is sick and properly so I posit)
Defend: 2 (Champion: 3)
Body: 4 (Shaman: 3) (Champion: 5)
Mind: 2 (Shaman: 5) (Champion: 3)
Give the Shaman the Ork Shaman Spells and where it says Ork, insert Beastman.
Max occurring in a HQ Dungeon setting should probably be 1-5 soldiers. The need for balance must be preserved. And beastmen like to be out in the open anyways. Not many would be cool with living in a dungeon.

No bonus to the Champions attack as it is sick already and a champion will probably have soldiers with him.