Ye Olde Inn

5. New Spell System
The Elven spell cards introduced in this Quest Pack are a new spell
group for the Elf's use only. The Elf may choose either this spell group
or any other after the Wizard chooses his first spell group. If the Elf
does not choose the new Elven spell cards, they are removed from play.

If the Elf does choose the new Elven spell cards, he must pick only 3 of
the 8 Elven spells to use in each Quest.

OK, but do you allow the player to choose which ones?
Or does he just draw three cards at random from this set?

It says choose, so choose. If it had said select at random… Presumably there are better choices than others for each quest. I don't know yet.

It say choose this spell group (instead of an Elemental spell group), not the single cards, then says to "pick" 3 cards.
I don't know exactly if "pick" has a particular meaning (like "pescare" in Italian specifically means "to take at random without knowing") or if it has the same meaning of choose or take, that's why I started this post.

lestodante wrote:It say choose this spell group (instead of an Elemental spell group), not the single cards, then says to "pick" 3 cards.
I don't know exactly if "pick" has a particular meaning (like "pescare" in Italian specifically means "to take at random without knowing") or if it has the same meaning of choose or take, that's why I started this post.

I would think "pick" provides the option of choice. "I'm going to pick this one."
I think it would say "draw them randomly" if that was the intention.
However, the North American quest packs were completely botched through lack of playtesting so not all things were considered, as the Elf and Barbarian quest packs and spell cards have questionable wording or aren't specific enough; nearly impossible solo quests to beat with an unequipped hero; extra artifact cards that do not appear in quests; and chaos spells for monsters that have little to no use in correlation to the quest map (I'm looking at you Reanimation).
So you can do your own thing with this one.

However I must add that I really like what you did with diving the Elf Spells in Time, Nature and Illusion. I'd like playing with those as the option.

Or how about a totally wildcard option... what if he gets ALL the cards but can only USE up to three each quest?

Too forgiving?

Kurgan wrote:Or how about a totally wildcard option... what if he gets ALL the cards but can only USE up to three each quest?

Too forgiving?

Well, admittedly, that seems a little too powerful for the Elf. But then again most of the potions in the Barbarian and Elf quest packs are tailored specifically to them, and they're very powerful potions indeed.

Some of the spells aren't highly specific, like Twist Wood. Other Zargons can easily modify the effects of this spell, but it seems like it was specifically made just to mess with the Elven Archers. Thing is, though, Elven Archers only appear in 2 of the Elf quests, and unless Zargon's showing the players what monsters will be in which quest beforehand, the Elf wouldn't know if or when to pick this spell and it would just be a waste
Your suggestion does fix this dilemma, but still seems highly favorable for the Elf.

Kurgan wrote:Or how about a totally wildcard option... what if he gets ALL the cards but can only USE up to three each quest?

Too forgiving?

Cool solution, a wider range of spells but only three are usable. Anyway , the Wizard will look even moore poor (unless you upgrade him too)!!

lestodante wrote:It say choose this spell group (instead of an Elemental spell group), not the single cards, then says to "pick" 3 cards.
I don't know exactly if "pick" has a particular meaning (like "pescare" in Italian specifically means "to take at random without knowing") or if it has the same meaning of choose or take, that's why I started this post.

In English, Pick means to choose from a group. There is no implication that this choice is random in any way, hence the clarification of the instructions "to pick at random" when randomness is required. Thus, I would say that the Elf gets to choose any THREE Elf Spells they wish to take and cast during the Quest.

Yeah the Wizard of Morcar spells can be used by either Wizard or Elf. If you "unlock" those earlier... well you still have the problem of the "new" spells being kind of weak (many have suggested upgraded versions). Yeah, the Wizard doesn't get upgraded like the Elf does in his own pack... well if you use the Phoenix version (Elven Bracers not used in any of the official quests).

lestodante wrote:

Kurgan wrote:Or how about a totally wildcard option... what if he gets ALL the cards but can only USE up to three each quest?

Too forgiving?

Cool solution, a wider range of spells but only three are usable. Anyway , the Wizard will look even moore poor (unless you upgrade him too)!!

Playing him today, … the wizard really was nerfed in US rules. Where everything is made of toilet paper in the EU release, the wizard's got some great spells that are actually useful. Get more than a couple of quests into the US questbook though and the wizard's got one solid attack against one tough opponent and from then on he's basically tissue paper. If I actually build some house rules of my own … I'm throwing the wizard a bone, he needs one.

Yeah, we've got skill cards for barbarian and dwarf, we've got upgrades for the elf (who can use weapons and armor anyway at least), Morcar gets upgrades that grant him a threat mechanic to keep players from dallying (we discovered this is a problem too—the threat mechanic essentially makes walking into traps and and rolling for lost body points "safer" than waiting around to search for them. Two obvious solutions present themselves, and I like neither: Give up the threat mechanic or make the traps hurt enough that the players will stop…

In the US rules, the quests seem sufficiently difficult, especially later ones. The value of threat is not so much to make the game harder for the players, but to make it more fun for Morcar to actually have some strategic planning and unpredictability. And maybe to have just a little more chance of killing the players if they're not careful.

I have to think on it. I keep coming back to the fact that I didn't realize how lame the wizard really was. He needs some balance somewhere.