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Re: Elf spell questions

PostPosted: Monday August 16th, 2021 9:03pm
by wallydubbs
lestodante wrote:About Hypnotic Blaze: WHEN the 3 missed turns should start for the monsters?
Do they start on their turn (Zargon's turn) or from the moment the Elf casts the spell (Elf's turn)?
With the first option, when the Elf casts the spell the next hero can enter the room and attack the monster but the monster can still defend.
With the second option, when the Elf casts the spell the next Hero may enter and attack an already blocked monster who can't defend.


That's a good question, I've never delved into it as i just assumed it started once the spell was cast. But by the way you addressed compared to the way I've played it, the monsters have lost their defense privileges for a maximum of 4 turns. However i think the card makers didn't take defense into mind when they first made this spell, more so focusing on negating the monster's attacks and movements. Yes, they did address the lack of defense, but it should be common knowledge at this point that the Elf Quest Pack (as well as the Barbarian Quest Pack) wasn't playtested to catch little bugs like this.
Naturally, i just skipped over the error you found, taking the hypnotism into effect as soon as the spell was cast. It can, after all, be used in a solo quest, but the Elf only gets 2 free attacks since he used his turn action to cast the spell.

In a group quest, if the elf doesn't have the last turn, you could negate thd monster's defense 4 times:
Elf casts spell, other heroes turn/monsters miss defence, monster 1st turn, heroes turn/monsters miss defense, monster 2nd turn, heroes turn/monsters miss defense, monsters 3rd turn...
It's up to Zargon on how you wish to proceed: After the monster's 3rd missed turn, you may end the spell there and they may defend on the heroes following turn, or wait until the monster's next turn to return to full capacity. Zargon, as usual, gets the final say on how to interpret this.

In my own personal opinion, this spell is vastly overpowered, especially when played under the context that you described. It's the only spell that effects multiple monsters (asides from maybe one's interpretation of Twist Wood), though on the flip side it could effect the heroes too. But as you pointed out, there are methods around this. But in my opinion, to balance this spell, if the Elf casts it in a room and another runs in immediately after, he too should have to roll for mind points. The Elf cast the spell and can't be effected, neither can the Wizard with 6 mind points, so i think it would be fair to subject the Barbarian and Dwarf to mind point tolls when this spell is cast. It would be a formal balance in my opinion.

Re: Elf spell questions

PostPosted: Tuesday October 12th, 2021 1:16am
by Daedalus
lestodante wrote:About Hypnotic Blaze: WHEN the 3 missed turns should start for the monsters?
Do they start on their turn (Zargon's turn) or from the moment the Elf casts the spell (Elf's turn)?
With the first option, when the Elf casts the spell the next hero can enter the room and attack the monster but the monster can still defend.
With the second option, when the Elf casts the spell the next Hero may enter and attack an already blocked monster who can't defend.

I'd say the proper interpretation is to have the monsters missing turns starting from the moment the Elf casts the spell. "When this spell is cast . . . Every figure. . . must roll one red die." Failure means being paralyzed from that point, possibly not defending, and missing three turns. Normal defense resumes just after the Elf has had two more turns.

wallydubbs wrote:. . . In my own personal opinion, this spell is vastly overpowered, especially when played under the context that you described. It's the only spell that effects multiple monsters (asides from maybe one's interpretation of Twist Wood), though on the flip side it could effect the heroes too. But as you pointed out, there are methods around this. But in my opinion, to balance this spell, if the Elf casts it in a room and another runs in immediately after, he too should have to roll for mind points. The Elf cast the spell and can't be effected, neither can the Wizard with 6 mind points, so i think it would be fair to subject the Barbarian and Dwarf to mind point tolls when this spell is cast. It would be a formal balance in my opinion.

I agree Hypnotic Gaze is overpowered for all the reasons cited, but also because it's so likely to last three turns. Another fix could be to limit it's effect to the end of the Elf's next turn. In a solo Quest, the spell can either provide an extra move to retreat or one attack against a monster without a defense and a move (not bad.) However, a coordinated party of Heroes might get off some ranged attacks and/or another spell from outside a room before the Elf's turn, then all Heroes could attack without monster defense within the room. Still very powerful, but two-thirds less so.

If all monsters in the room are paralyzed by Hypnotic Gaze, shouldn't it be okay for a Hero to search for traps, secret doors, or treasure in the same room? I guess the same question could apply for a turn when a single monster has a Tempest spell cast upon it. Seems to me that searches could be justified from immediately after the caster's turn when Tempest has been cast until the end of his next turn.

Re: Elf spell questions

PostPosted: Tuesday October 12th, 2021 8:02am
by Kurgan
I didn't allow searching to occur if the monster was just under Tempest, but for Sleep, yes. Anything that truly paralyzed the monster it would be logical to extend the same property.

The monster who is stunned isn't really active in the world at that moment so to speak, while the other is angry that he just lost his turn and won't let you search safely, is how I imagine it.

Re: Elf spell questions

PostPosted: Tuesday October 12th, 2021 12:45pm
by lestodante
Daedalus wrote:I agree Hypnotic Gaze is overpowered for all the reasons cited, but also because it's so likely to last three turns. Another fix could be to limit it's effect to the end of the Elf's next turn. In a solo Quest, the spell can either provide an extra move to retreat or one attack against a monster without a defense and a move (not bad.) However, a coordinated party of Heroes might get off some ranged attacks and/or another spell from outside a room before the Elf's turn, then all Heroes could attack without monster defense within the room. Still very powerful, but two-thirds less so.

If all monsters in the room are paralyzed by Hypnotic Gaze, shouldn't it be okay for a Hero to search for traps, secret doors, or treasure in the same room? I guess the same question could apply for a turn when a single monster has a Tempest spell cast upon it. Seems to me that searches could be justified from immediately after the caster's turn when Tempest has been cast until the end of his next turn.


the power of the spell may also depend by the turn order of the Heroes. If the Elf is the first one, he can enter the room and cast the spell. No hero except him are in the room so no effects for the heroes.
If the elf is not the first one he must think twice before using this spell, it can affect other heroes, blocking them for 3 turns; while other monsters may pass the mind test, the Barbarian or the Dwarf could not... :twisted:
So I will not change it. It is very strong if used wisely, if not, it may be dangerous for the Heroes.

Re: Elf spell questions

PostPosted: Tuesday October 12th, 2021 2:03pm
by cynthialee
If the Elf was smart enough to chose the spell, let him have it.
Once cast it is gone. (unless he has another way of using said spell like a scroll <like I would allow this as a scroll> or a spell storing device, which isn't common)

Reward smart play. Crush idiots.