Why buy the tool kit?

[FainFlynn]

@Goblin, I get that, but think about it. They waste an action searching/disarming a trap, meanwhile monsters move in and get first attack. The prospect of 2, 3, 4 body points damage from a monster is more dangerous than a 1 BP trap, no?

[cynthialee]

Incapacitating the Dwarf isn't a solution.
Making traps more difficult or dangerous isn't a solution.
Improving a tool kits effect isn't a solution.
Making a tool kit more financially affordable isn't a solution.
....snip

I have to 100% disagree with your assessments and approach.
I posit that any hero who relies on the Dwarf for all the trap issues is not doing their part.

Also the improvement of challenges is part and parcel of this game. Why have any advancement at all when this tact is chosen? We'll just play Goblin and Zombie hunt all the time.

Ideas that come to mind:
More advanced traps that require a Dwarf with a Kit.
Advanced traps that require 2 or more heroes with tools to disarm.
Traps that require more than just point to them and saying "here is a trap" followed with heroes making way for the Dwarf the umpteenth time might be a challenge.
Traps that require multiple turns to disarm. {Then mid work have a monster wander in and the heroes have to protect the Dwarf as he works with his tools to disarm the trap.}

[Count Mohawk]

@Goblin, I get that, but think about it. They waste an action searching/disarming a trap, meanwhile monsters move in and get first attack. The prospect of 2, 3, 4 body points damage from a monster is more dangerous than a 1 BP trap, no?

Traps such as Pit and Falling Block traps have secondary effects that can alter the combat situation for the worse. Even triggering a simple Spear trap costs the Hero the rest of his turn. The threat of traps adds another dimension to Hero Quest combat beyond "open the door and kill the monsters". I'm pretty sure everyone has rushed up towards a Chaos Warrior only to fall into a pit trap and get beaten by his Orc flunkies at least once in their HQ career.

Other trap ideas could include:
Traps that go off automatically on Zargon's next turn, preventing the Dwarf from getting there in time
Traps that can only be disabled for a limited amount of time before they re-arm themselves. Imagine a corridor with a bunch of hidden arrow traps that activate every time someone passes through. You can disable it from either side of the corridor, but if you leave that to the Dwarf alone he can never pass through himself without getting hit.

[the_nine_riders]

In my opinion, it would depend on the number of players and how well they work as a team. I've played games where it
was just myself and the EWP and I controlled all four heros. In that senario, I didn't feel the need to buy a tool kit for the
other heros.

Now if I'm playing with a couple of other peopl controlling other heros, I might buy a tool kit depending on how much I trust
my other teammates to work together.

I don't feel that it takes away from the game to rely soley on the Dwarf, but it will make the game drag out relying on him to
disarm everything.

Every player is different, and they will have their own opinions on to buy or not to buy...

[Daedalus]

I thought about getting rid of the rule where they can't search or disarm traps while there is a monster in the room. What say you guys? That, in addition to the lack of ability to search through doorways, I think opens the game more.

Thoughts?

I partially argued for searching with monsters present in this topic.

[alyndavies]

I have played the game at various times throught my life, from 1989 onwards as a 10 year old, and have come back to it several times. In that time I have never come across a situation where someone has used the tool kit. Whats the point in rolling the dice to disarm a trap and risk getting hit by it again after it's already hit you?

You fall down a pit trap, you climb out on your next go, so just carry on with the quest, why risk a 50/50 chance rolling a skull and get hurt again?

[Count Mohawk]

I think you might be misreading the tool kit's ability a little. You use it after you find the trap, but before it has been sprung. Thus, if you've already fallen into a pit trap, you can't use the tool kit to 'disarm' it after the fact.

Also, attempting to disarm a trap with a tool kit and attempting to 'jump' over the trapped square have the same success rate (50-50). Ergo, Disarming is better than jumping, given the choice.

[alyndavies]

I think you might be misreading the tool kit's ability a little. You use it after you find the trap, but before it has been sprung. Thus, if you've already fallen into a pit trap, you can't use the tool kit to 'disarm' it after the fact.

Also, attempting to disarm a trap with a tool kit and attempting to 'jump' over the trapped square have the same success rate (50-50). Ergo, Disarming is better than jumping, given the choice.

But surely you only find the trap after you've fallen into it? If you search for "secret doors and traps" then the trap is revealed on the board by placing the appropriate trap token on the game board. So either way it's useless.

[Count Mohawk]

But surely you only find the trap after you've fallen into it? If you search for "secret doors and traps" then the trap is revealed on the board by placing the appropriate trap token on the game board. So either way it's useless.

A pit trap is a covered hole in the floor. If the trap is found during a search, Zargon will say that the floor looks weak and will point to the square where the trap is located. Zargon will NOT put a pit trap tile on the game board at this time. It has not yet been sprung.

Bolded for emphasis. Also, obligatory XKCD comic reference:

[alyndavies]

But surely you only find the trap after you've fallen into it? If you search for "secret doors and traps" then the trap is revealed on the board by placing the appropriate trap token on the game board. So either way it's useless.

A pit trap is a covered hole in the floor. If the trap is found during a search, Zargon will say that the floor looks weak and will point to the square where the trap is located. Zargon will NOT put a pit trap tile on the game board at this time. It has not yet been sprung.

Bolded for emphasis. Also, obligatory XKCD comic reference:

Thanks very much for replying, I think I have found the problem, my rules say:
Trap tiles may only be placed if found by a search or if triggered by a character moving onto the trapped square. Pit traps and falling block traps are placed onto the board when found.

I guess the USA and British rules are a bit different.

oh here we go, it's on this site:
http://english.yeoldeinn.com/downloads/ ... dition.pdf
page 5 bottom left.