Revised rules

[mitchiemasha]

Well! the Spear traps are meant to be the lightest trap threat. Technically, in the original rules, the search action would set off the Pit trap too, but it wouldn't hurt you, and was placed on the board. Kind of... "Oh! what does this lever do?" or "I wonder what this wires for"... "Ah! a secret door", "Woah! where did those spears come from" or "Whoops, who's chucking the dwarf over that pit". That's why both TRAPS and SECRET DOOR searches are combined (UK ed), it the same thing, it's a more cautious check out the room before quickly grabbing what ever Treasure the deck reveals. One could say it's a slow treasure search, that take 2 heroes, or 1 hero 2 turns.

I like to bring in aspects of the US ed, pointing to the hazard (which allows the Explorers Kit/Maps mod) and making sprung traps, non removable (creating a use for rope). Originally the sprung pit trap was what the dwarf would remove, which seems a little strange, unless he had big boards of wood in his tool kit.

I've combined the best of both with the intention of enabling extra equipment, Maps, Rope etc... Not forgetting a torch (which the scout holds by default), enabling the Hero to reroll 1 Move d6. If it's the same result, the torch dies. I wanted to add as many more dungeon things with out actually changing the original rules, just twisting the interpretations between the editions.

If you want to make Spear traps more of a threat, only trigger the closest, this will catch them out a few times. I also make it so the use of a search action, with a tool kit or Disable traps skill, only removes 1 trap, if there is another trap in that area, the Hero would have to spend their action on another turn.

[mitchiemasha]

That's how NA rules work. A Hero searches for traps and the EWP just tells them where they are. Then the Heroes may attempt to disarm on another turn using a Dwarf or toolkit.

I play UK ed with a few twist from US ed. See my last post.

It's also worth noting... If playing the damage mod, the tool kit would be broken/lost if rolling a black shield*. This prevents them being super powerful when allowing the roll to be on the search that found the Trap, which is the original wording "The tool kit enables you to remove any trap that you find. Roll 1 Combat dice". I prefer it that way as it speeds the game up, makes the kit more powerful overall but with a weakness.

And don't forget... If we look at the tool kit wording "Once you have rolled the die the trap is removed". The hero isn't rolling to 'attempt' to remove the trap, the trap is always removed, it's if they suffer a body point or not that the roll is for, which doesn't have to be seen as falling in the trap etc... The hero could receive the wound in what ever mechanism they were tampering with.

*with no wound received and the trap is still removed

[j_dean80]

NA rules you stand on the trap to attempt to disarm. If you stand on a pit trap and fail your disarm then a pit trap is placed on the board and you lose BP. If you stand on a spear trap and fail to disarm you still get to roll again to see if you lose BP (just managed to side-step as the spear shot out). If you stand on a falling rock trap and fail your disarm then you roll again to see BP loss (same as spear but more possible BP loss).

Perhaps the Elf should get better odds of avoiding the BP loss because of his agility.

Secret door searches and trap searches are seperate in NA but I do like the EU rule of combining those two.

A dwarf has better chances of a successful disarm then the toolkit but neither is 100%.

[mitchiemasha]

NA rules you stand on the trap to attempt to disarm. If you stand on a pit trap and fail your disarm then a pit trap is placed on the board and you lose BP. If you stand on a spear trap and fail to disarm you still get to roll again to see if you lose BP (just managed to side-step as the spear shot out). If you stand on a falling rock trap and fail your disarm then you roll again to see BP loss (same as spear but more possible BP loss).

Yeah, I don't like that at all... Too many rolls. I much prefer the wording on the UK Tool Kit equipment card. It's a lot simpler. You search, you find a trap, you roll a die, trap is removed, you either suffer -1 Body or you don't. Next turn.

Those falling rocks are killers. The UK edition has them working perfectly. It's worth noting, there are other squares in some quests that have bad ceilings, these serve as a not so harsh falling rock. The actual trap, with the tile, was designed as a blocking the way or separating the Heroes, not so much a trap but a full cave in. It was supposed to be extremely unlikely that these would fall onto you, falling behind or infront. I believe the US version broke this, I'd have to recheck.

[Count Mohawk]

US Falling Block Traps are sprung when a Hero walks onto their square, and the unfortunate Hero takes 3 Combat Dice worth of damage. However, the Hero can choose which side of the trap he wants to be on afterwards, which makes it a lot harder for the Evil Wizard Player to 'force' a separation with the traps since they can just double back.

There are exceptions, of course; the most famous one is the 'special' falling block trap in Barak Tor which only triggers after the last Hero passes it. But by and large US Falling Block Traps are feared more for their damage than for their party-splitting capabilities.

(Also, I remember reading somewhere that Swinging Axe traps, from the Ogre Horde and elsewhere, dealt a whopping 5 Combat Dice of damage. Where did that come from, I wonder? Maybe I'm confusing them with the Rolling Stone traps??)

[mitchiemasha]

And... Although the original rules specify,

"Trap tiles may be removed from the board by any character who has the tool kit equipment card and is adjacent to the trap. The Dwarf may automatically remove any trap tile he is adjacent to".

As a search in the US edition doesn't place the trap on the board, the EW simply points, this is ignored. Especially as many play, 'Sprung traps can't be removed', there would never be a Trap removable represented on the board. Keeping the rules consistent and taking this next line into consideration,

"When a player searches he searches the whole room or passage in which he is standing".

The bit in bold never needs to be implemented. Once the room is freed of monsters, placement is irreverent. As long as you start your next turn where you ended, for the race against other players, your character could of been anywhere and everywhere in the room. This is why i also add, Treasure Search: A room not searched for traps, featuring a trap, will trigger the trap. Place the Hero on the trapped square, don’t pick a card.

It's worth noting, the 'bolder tile' from the falling rocks isn't a trap tile and can't be removed, regardless.

[mitchiemasha]

US Falling Block Traps are sprung when a Hero walks onto their square, and the unfortunate Hero takes 3 Combat Dice worth of damage. However, the Hero can choose which side of the trap he wants to be on afterwards.

Yes, the choice still stands on the UK ed but... They rocks fall behind or infront. It's very rare another hero triggers them on to the square you are stood. Again, these traps were designed for division, blockage, not to hurt the Heroes. But they still had to put in the mechanic of damage in case it happened. Which, as it's a full cave in, needed to be severe. The UK ed makes for some lucky moments when a passing hero happens to step on a trigger square, with the other hero 2 squares back. This has a much better overall feel and dynamic in game than simply falling on the triggering hero.

[Maurice76]

I don't understand the concept of the Falling Rocks trap in the European Rules, by the way. Never have. The trigger tile differs from the tile in which it collapses. Does Chaos Magic turn gravity sideways or something?

Maybe it's a map issue, though and the symbol of the Falling Rocks and the pointing arrow are simply confusing as to what's really happening.

[mitchiemasha]

Does Chaos Magic turn gravity sideways or something?

Oh dear! so much i can write about this.

A traps trigger doesn't have to be the same spot it effects (should that be affects? I struggle with that one).
Is it even a trap, or simply a cave in? The map represents the unfolding of a story, those monsters aren't frozen in time, that just happens to be where they are in the story when you get there, what ever moment that happens to be, the same could be said for the falling rock, cave in. It's where that's fixed and when that's free.

Regardless to all the fluff i can come up with to support it, 1 reason tops all, it plays better. No -3 body hidden behind doors. The ability to block heroes in mysterious rooms, with puzzles to escape, with out nearly killing the trapped victim. Lucky near misses for companions, or unlucky hits if you're all too close. Maze like quests that won't kill the group with a few bad rolls. The creative options are endless.

The standard falling rock, that doesn't block the way is marked without the arrow, this is -1B when failing the roll. These could be traps or old ceiling caving in. Perhaps it's a mine and you knocked over some rotten stumps. The choices are only limited by our imagination.

Edit: I've spent way too much time over the years thinking about which versions of the rules to use and the reasons behind it.

[Maurice76]

Does Chaos Magic turn gravity sideways or something?

Oh dear! so much i can write about this.

Well, I think we can then agree that the symbols on the map are simply awkward? The trigger tile is marked with a Falling Rocks symbol, while the actual location it drops down is marked with the arrow.

To me, it would make much more sense if the tile with the Falling Rocks is the actual place where it falls down and that - when applicable - the trigger tile is marked differently, with a symbol that makes more sense than the downward arrow. When the trigger tile is missing, the Falling Rocks tile is the trigger tile itself. Right now, in the European version, both the trigger tile and the destination tile are always present and they're always different tiles.

But that's me and it's basically a map symbol semantics issue.