HQ: Heroes & Villains (knightkrawler) - DISCUSSION

[mitchiemasha]

The first bit of text, mentioned rule or a version of it too many times.

[cornixt]

All of the bits that go "Base Defend: the number given under base defend on a rolesheet is the number of combat dice that..." are difficult to read. Using "under" doesn't help either. Go with something more like "Base Defend: the base defend number on a rolesheet is the number of combat dice that...". I'm pretty sure that people can work out what the base defend number is from the location of the words and the number. I'd advise using bold, colored, or italic words to distinguish a stat name or ability over the word itself if you choose not to reword.

Overall, it's mostly very wordy, but in some places it's too concise. This bit caught me offguard: "In these cases, the value changes are made in their role sheet file, which is printed anew.". It's deceptive in that it doesn't say how this is meant to happen. Morcar has to reprint your character sheet or you do? Could you not just call it a permanent change?

[Anderas]

Yes, leave the reprint to the players. If they like to have it crossed on their sheet, let them live with it.

I didn't understand this passage:

OPTIONAL: Villains Opening Doors
Any villain with at least two current mind points may open a door if the room or corridor section into which it leads contains at least one other door or secret door that has been opened.

Any villain that is given a proper name in the questnotes may open any door or secret door. However, Morcar only activates the doors, not the other contents of a room they pass through. These are only activated as soon as they are in a hero's line of sight.

First, villains with 2+ Mind points may open which doors? Doors to rooms that already have open doors? So only doors that lead directly back into explored dungeon?

Second, villains with names ("Nains") may open other doors but the room stays empty. ("activated" in your ruleset means "placed on the board" right? I don't like the additional vocabulary. Couldn't you avoid it somehow?) Does it mean that he is trapped in the room as long as there is no Hero looking into the room and seeing another door?
I would assume that Nain the Villain screams blue murder to alert his friends in the next room (read: use them as living shields); so why not just placing them just as if the heroes had had entered and then apply normal rules?
Yes it means that Nain the Villain is extremely dangerous, but as he has a name, that's right as it should be, no?

[knightkrawler]

First, villains with 2+ Mind points may open which doors? Doors to rooms that already have open doors? So only doors that lead directly back into explored dungeon?

Exactly. Big freakin' mess otherwise. But I'm going to have to rephrase that rule.

Second, villains with names ("Nains") may open other doors but the room stays empty. ("activated" in your ruleset means "placed on the board" right? I don't like the additional vocabulary. Couldn't you avoid it somehow?) Does it mean that he is trapped in the room as long as there is no Hero looking into the room and seeing another door?
I would assume that Nain the Villain screams blue murder to alert his friends in the next room (read: use them as living shields); so why not just placing them just as if the heroes had had entered and then apply normal rules?
Yes it means that Nain the Villain is extremely dangerous, but as he has a name, that's right as it should be, no?

Have to think about all this. It's been playtested and I can't for the life of me remember why I felt so inclined to write down that rule.
For now, I'll scratch the entire Named Villain part and go with listing such opening doors rules in the questnotes.
Very very useful post to me, Anderas, thanks a bunch.

Cornixt, have a brew and some cheese. I'll buy.
I shorted and simplified the language in that whole chapter (edited in the original post). It takes a native speaker to kick my ass linguistically.
Will also have to think about changing the Defend thingie into "defence" to make it sound less awkward in sentences. After all, defend is a verb and when it's referred to as a stat it's a noun - fraggled up, this.
On formatting the text, that will be done. Also, glossary.

michiemash, thank you very much. Once someone tells me I know how to deal with a problem I thought was unsolvable yesterday. Edited in the original post, hoe it reads more fluent now.

[sajungzak]

Some of these are suggestions to solve what I perceive as wording issues, some are merely suggestions, take 'em or leave 'em.

So, here's a sneak peak into what kind of language I utilize for my ruleset.

1 - Getting Started & Learning the Rules

The first thing you have to get accustomed to when playing HQ – Heroes & Villains' is that whatever you learn in this book is overruled by cards or questnotes whenever both rulings are incongruous. In these circumstances, rulebook text becomes subordinate to what the card or questnotes tell you to do.

All text used, whether in the rulebook, any questbook, cards, or appendix sheets, are rule texts. They are aimed to be uninterpretable
un·in·ter·pret·a·ble / adjective / impossible to explain or understand in terms of meaning or significance.
I think what you meant to say here is something like, "easily interpretable" or "difficult to misinterpret."
in order to keep the rules unambiguous, which is one reason why there is an extensive glossary in the back of the rulebook. Said glossary contains all terms and expressions that have a specific in-game meaning. As long as you do not know these entries by heart, use the glossary to look these terms up and avoid debate and unclarities. In fact, read it right now, to gain preliminary general view over what terms are in-game termst.
*Suggested edit* "In fact, look over the glossary now to get a general view of what the in-game terms are."

An important feature of how the rules of HQ work is cross-referencing. In some rule texts you will find italized terms, called attributes. Some cards list one or several attributes under their title, seperated by dashes, some use them in their descriptive text. The item the card depicts has all these attributes, but no other. That means if item A has an effect on attribute X it only has an effect on other items that have attribute X. The glossary lists each attribute.



a) The Morcar Player

One player must assume the role of Morcar. This will be the player who pits his forces against the other players, which means he controls all the villains. This role may be swapped among players between quests, but not when a quest has to be repeated, which is the case when all heroes die during the same quest.

Aside from being the other players' opponent, the Morcar player (from here on simply 'Morcar') functions as the sole referee in rule questions and other ambiguities that might come up, and therefore has to have a very tight grip on all the rules in this book, all the group's houserules, and all optional rules agreed upon. These optional rules are presented in this rulebook and the modular campaign books and are distinguished by frames and colored backgrounds. All players together or Morcar alone may decide before each new quest on which optional rules they want to incorporate into play and which they do not. There is a table among the material, which you can print out to keep track of which optional rules are used in which quest.

Morcar's third function in a game of HQ: Heroes & Villains is that of a gamemaster, very much like in a pen & paper role-playing game. Only He oversees where his forces are and what they can do. Only he knows where the treasures are and how exactly missions can be accomplished. Houserules – rules the players write themselves – may expand considerably on this role and the RPG potential of HQ: Heroes & Villains.



b) The Hero Players

The other players – ideally four – play the roles of the heroes, one from each of these four hero classes: Warrior, Quester, Adept, and Spellcaster. Within each of these classes there are several different heroes offered by the printable rolesheets that a player having chosen a hero class must narrow down his choice to. This hero pick determines the scores in several attributes (the stats) and, most importantly, what that hero may and cannot may not do. Thus, heroes can be played in different styles tactically with their respective strengths and weaknesses.

This last paragraph accommodates for the number of 5 players. However, in cases where only two, three, or four players are available,nevertheless all four hero classes should nevertheless be represented to make the heroes' success more likely. That means that Specifically, one or more players should play one or even more heroes. Of course, this will not deteriorate detract from the game experience and might even make for even more interesting tactical gameplay.
In case even six players want to take part, there is still enough room on the board. After the first four players have decided on a their heroes, each, the group each representing each a different hero class, the fifth player may choose any hero not already chosen, but from any hero class.

Each figure in play is given so-called stats, numeric values for different stylized gameplay factors which are found on their printable rolesheets.
There are stats for base attack and base defend, for body and mind points, and for movement. Basically, any numeric value can be referred to as a stat. Stats are given on villain cards and rolesheets, and in many cases are modified by other cards and rules.


c) Stats

Each individual figure has a set of stats – numbers representing the level of strength or expertise in a certain area. The stats of a hero are found on their corresponding rolesheet and can be modified. The stats of a villain are found in its corresponding villain card and the villain chart. There are can be found the following stats:

Base Attack: t The base attack score is the number of combat dice a hero may roll to resolve their attack. It is always usually modified, for instance example; by an Equipment card.
Base attack +/- modifiers = attack, determining how many combat dice a hero rolls for the current attack.
The attack score for a villain is the number of combat dice they may roll to resolve their attack.

Base Defend: t The base defend score is the number of combat dice a hero may roll to resolve their defence. It is, more often than not, modified, for instance example; by an Equipment card.
Base defend +/- modifiers = defend, determining how many combat dice a hero rolls for the current defend.
The defend score for a villain is the number of combat dice they may roll to resolve their defend.

Mind: t The mind score is the number of mind points a figure may lose before they die. At the start of a quest, each hero takes a value of mind point tokens equal to that number. Their current mind points may never exceed these starting mind points during a quest. Each time a hero loses a number of mind points, they discard that value of tokens.

Body: t The body score is the number of body points a figure may lose before they die. At the start of a quest, each hero takes a value of body point tokens equal to that number. Their current body points may never exceed these starting body points during a quest. Each time a hero loses a number of body points, they discard that value of tokens.

Additionally, villains have a move score, a rigid number of movement points that villain may spend per turn. In contrast, all heroes roll two d6 to determine their movement points.


d) Death

When a hero discards their last body or mind point token, they die. The figure is put face down in the square it last occupied. That square may be freely moved through, but not ended a move in a move may not be ended there. If a hero starts their next turn with 0 mind or body points, then
(don't forget that comma! The 'then' is optional, but it's hard to see a little red comma. Bet you see it now!)
their figure is taken from the gameboard and their player is now free to make sandwiches and chili dips.

The gold coins in possession of the dead hero are immediately discarded. Their Artefact and Equipment cards, however, are not yet lost. They are freely divided among all heroes currently in the same room or corridor section where the hero died. If no hero is in that room they are discarded immediately.

A villain dies when losing their last body or mind point and their figure is taken from the gameboard immediately. Note that those villains with 0 starting mind points can only die by losing body points.

The best way for Morcar to keep track of villains' body and mind points is not using tokens, but with the help of the Villain Tracker sheet found in the appendices and inscripting the bases of all villain figures, numbering all individual figures of each type. When utilized this way, there will be an 'Ork 1', an 'Ork 2', a 'Revenant 1', and so on, connecting each individual villain figure to an entry in the Tracker.

*Annoying comment* You mean I have to write something, on paper? uhg

OPTIONAL: Dead Villain Markers
Put a marker into the square last occupied by a dead villain. It is no obstacle to movement, and a move can even end on such a square. You can use these markers for looting corpses. There are many monster looting houserules to be found on yeoldeinn.com.

[knightkrawler]

Thank you very much, kind sir. Some of these will be implemented.
-uninterpretable- it wasn't quite rolling off my tongue right. Jesus. Thanks for noticing!

Writing on paper? No, you don't. The sheet will be offered as a word file. The characters you'll have to add into empty spaces,
but in terms of writing I want to eliminate as much as possible.
Body point tokens, gold coins, cards...

[sajungzak]

I hope you don't feel I've butchered it. Especially that second paragraph under The Hero Players. What do you think of it? I'm still not sure about some of it.

Instead of, "In case even six players want to take part," I'd say, "If a sixth player wants to take part."

[knightkrawler]

No, it's pretty much perfect. I'll edit tomorrow.
These are all grammar errors I made and you improved on the one hand,
and on the other hand your wording is just easier to read which is the most important thing to keep me down to earth when writing something like this.
Will edit in the original post and in my script tomorrow. Again, thanks!

What do you think about the overall direction this is taking? I mean, there's no way back now, cause I'm basically done with the rulebook and most cards, but I'm very curious.
The only thing I'm wondering if I should change something essential is making little colorful icons to represent attributes (see HeroQuest Revived by Slev - I love it).
Makes ruling and learning easier, but distracts from the art and fluff text.

[sajungzak]

Instead of, "In case even six players want to take part," I'd say, "If a sixth player wants to take part."

That's what was bugging me still, I think.

I like the idea of everything being considered in a concise manner, but sad to hear that a player's gold is lost forever if he dies. Poor guys! Kidding, there will always be little differences in play style. That's what houserules are for, amiright?

[Count Mohawk]

-uninterpretable- it wasn't quite rolling off my tongue right. Jesus. Thanks for noticing!

The word you were probably looking for was "unambiguous".

Other suggestions:

Specifically, one or more players should play two or more heroes. Of course, t This will not detract from the game experience and might even make for even more interesting tactical gameplay.

Under Section 1c: Stats, I would list Move as a stat even though only monsters have a fixed value for Move. After all, some artifacts, spells and effects modify Heroic Move, even though their base Move is usually the standard two red dice.

You should also update your above post to include the edits to section 1d: Death you posted in the Pass Through Rock thread.