Making the base game more interconnected

[bastianbux]

Has anyone ever done an adaption of the original quests making them a bit more connected with each other like the quest packs are? That was the only complaint my players had was that each quest seemed to be a stand alone with no overarching plot and that didn't really interest them so much. When localizing the Japanese quests and seeing what a good job they did with making each quest flow from one to the other, it got me curious: has there ever been a fan "remix" of the original quests linking them together better?

I think I might take a stab at it myself if the new group I'll be running gets that far (we're going to be playing the Japanese quests first). I think I might cut out the first quest and move the first trip to Barak Tor up front as the first quest. I feel like that would help initiate the overarching plot better, and then have the majority of the quests be about trying to discover the location of the Spirit Blade. Like Sir Ragnar's quest's plot could be that he knows the location of the Spirit Blade, but has been captured, so his rescue serves double duty. "Lair of the Orc Warlord" could be because that is one of the suspected locales of the Spirit Blade, and so on. What do you guys think?

[Teldurn]

I don't know if it's been attempted before, but that sounds totally interesting. I'd love to follow your progress on this.
And don't forget to share with all of us when you do!

[knightkrawler]

I think there is an overarching plot. The Gathering Storm...
Morcar and Chaos have revealed themselves, and everyone else has to take a side. Balur, Karlen, the guy leading you into a trap...
The base game is Mentor and the heroes trying desperately to stop things by black-op'ing against the little instances of madness and chaos popping up here and there, collecting artefacts that might fall into the wrong hands, and stuff like that.
It's a little like the Fellowhsip of the Ring, where this and that is tried and revealed useless, and this and that evil gets revealed and everything is growing darker before the big picture is shown.

I applaud the plan as presented, but it's not necessary.

[GimmeYerGold]

I kind of like a few one-off quests and side missions to break up the plots. A lot of the early ones do tie together, (mostly two-parters) and these heroes are just starting out, so they're going to go on a few odd jobs. The first quest is called, "The Trial" after all ("Job Interview with Mentor" would be an interesting quest.)

I do look back on these first quests for inspiration because they're tightly designed, and often times shorter than the quest pack missions, so as far as building off on them, that's a neat idea, because they have a lot of strong elements, especially for casual, or new HQ players, in my opinion.

[Goblin-King]

I think there is an overarching plot. The Gathering Storm...
Morcar and Chaos have revealed themselves, and everyone else has to take a side. Balur, Karlen, the guy leading you into a trap...
The base game is Mentor and the heroes trying desperately to stop things by black-op'ing against the little instances of madness and chaos popping up here and there, collecting artefacts that might fall into the wrong hands, and stuff like that.

My thought exactly!
But it IS very subtle though.

[TMU]

I actually like the fact that these first quests are not in a line of any kind I think it makes the introducing of the game easier, 'cause it shows pretty much everything this game gives

[bastianbux]

I think there is an overarching plot. The Gathering Storm...
Morcar and Chaos have revealed themselves, and everyone else has to take a side. Balur, Karlen, the guy leading you into a trap...
The base game is Mentor and the heroes trying desperately to stop things by black-op'ing against the little instances of madness and chaos popping up here and there, collecting artefacts that might fall into the wrong hands, and stuff like that.
It's a little like the Fellowhsip of the Ring, where this and that is tried and revealed useless, and this and that evil gets revealed and everything is growing darker before the big picture is shown.

Oh, I totally agree, I'm just saying that if this is what was intended, it was not very explicit. So I was wondering if anyone has "remixed" the base game to make this plot a bit more obvious?

I ask because the group that I ran last year liked the game just fine, but they felt it lacked a plot. They're used to playing D&D and are used to each session being one piece of a larger puzzle. So that got me thinking: it would be fun to try my hand at adapting the base game in such a way as to make that overarching plot a bit more explicit... but I didn't want to do it if someone else already had done. Because I had started to do an adaption of Legacy of Soracil about a year ago and then found out a group had already started just such a thing.

[Count Mohawk]

Excellent thread. I wanted to chime in with a couple of additional thoughts:
Although the plot in this first quest pack is not as linear as, say, Kellar's Keep or the other additional quest packs, there are a few separate plots that nevertheless span multiple Quests. You have the Orcs doing their thing, first with Ulag and Grak and then in collusion with the broader forces of Chaos (Balur and Gulthor). In the meantime, the Emperor is scrambling to reestablish contact with as many of his servants as possible; he sends you to rescue Sir Ragnar first (which proves to be a lousy idea much later when the knight gets corrupted and starts a coup in the fortress of the Emperor's most elite troops), then to find Karlen/Wardoz, while in the meantime the Heroes stop to pick up other important relics such as Melar's Talisman of Lore. Finally, of course, on one such quest the Heroes accidentally wake up the Witch Lord and immediately have to drop everything else and put him back into the grave before the Undead overrun everything. The series ends with the Heroes having scored a number of victories, including a decisive one over the Witch Lord, but not having made a real dent in Zargon's plans...

Now, to interconnect these storylines more thoroughly, you might consider changing the order in which they are played a little bit. The Trial can either be a standalone i.e. "Internship Under Mentor", or can be used as a 'proving grounds' test later in the pack, perhaps right before the Witch Lord arc starts. Part of the charm of the base system pack is discovering just how corrupt the Empire's various peoples have become; the guide that deserts you in Quest 9 could have been in the Emperor's employ initially to lead you to one of the other quests; perhaps he was really one of the Chaos Warriors from 'Bastion of Chaos' in disguise? if told right, the whole pack becomes one long, continuous journey of the Heroes as they do the seemingly less-important Quests as brief detours on the road in between the more plot-relevant encounters.

And if all else fails, start naming characters and have them show up in multiple Quests. If there is, for example, frequently a room in each Quest with one Chaos Warrior and two Orcs, you could do a lot by implying it is somehow the same trio of monsters every time (although this only works if you can craft a sufficiently good reason why they didn't die from their Hero-caused injuries the first time).

[wallydubbs]

I came up with a plotline that I think works very well. However I've changed the intro that Mentor reads to the heroes at the start of the Quest just to make some of the quests flow.
We started with the Maze. As all heroes start in one corner of the board and meeting up in the middle. This isn't particularly a quest as much as it is a fun little race or contest among the 4.
I found The Trial too difficult for beginners so I moved that down the line.
Then comes The Rescue of Sir Ragnar, this is where storyline is needed, questions regarding the relationship between humans and orc might be questioned. Men are in good standing with Elves and Dwarves, but Orcs, apparently live further to the East but have been migrating West, Sir Ragnar investigating this was captured by the Orcs.
Quest 3 is the same, kill Ulag for imprisoning Sir Ragnar, possibly add violating boundaries.
Quest 4 you go retrieve Prince Magnus' Gold; the Orcs are becoming more active and bold, going after the Emperor's gold. But it is actually Gulthor who is behind it, who is not an orc. Something strange is going on, it seems someone else is guiding the Orcs.
Quest 5, the Orcs movement seem to show direction leading to the mythical Maze of Malar, which has been overrun by the undead for centuries. The undead hold no allegiance to anyone, so the 3 orcs the heroes encounter in this quest are looking for the Talisman of Lore as well, but they are not fighting with the undead. Melar hid the Talisman away so it wouldn't fall into the wrong hands (I also allow this medallion to give the Elf or wizard an extra set of spells if worn by then.
Quest 6: Grak's looking to avenge his daddy.
Quest 7: Wardoz was experimenting with Choas Magic, he even cast Rock Skin on the 4 Choas Warriors who assisted him, leading him to this cavern with the undead. He was searching for a way of controlling the undead, but ended up turning himself into one.
Quest 8: The Fire Mage: The orcs are now working with Ballur in their raids. I've tweaked this quest for my crew, Ballur's supposed to be working with orcs and yet he's mostly surrounded by the undead, so I've changed that. I replaced mummies with fimirs, skeletons with goblins and zombies with orcs, except the bottom left quadrant of the board, which included locked doors and undead for the heroes to walk into in case they missed the secret door.
The Trial: Verag has led a group of orcs and Choas Warriors into the catacombs to find Fellmarg's Tomb, Fellmarg was the last ancient king to wear the Star of the West. The Emperor needs this to unite the lesser kingdoms, which Verag realizes and is trying to prevent. The heroes defeat Verag and find Fellmarg's tomb only to realize they were too late, the Star of the West was already gone. I even teased them with a reward if 200 gold coins, but this quest is just to teach a lesson on failure. Quest 9 and 10 are not a request of the Emperor, so I'd like to suggest he loses faith in the heroes after letting the Star of the West get away and they're just looking for a payday.
Quest 9 I didn't care for so I changed the story on it, the heroes are traveling to the Castle of Mystery, but they stop at tavern and receive word that a local Alchemist is in danger. He spotted a scouting party of orcs and locked himself away in his laboratory not before sending out a raven. I added some furniture, a time limit, and rearranged the location of the stairs, but otherwise the layout is the same. The Alchemist rewards the heroes with the Elixir of Life and lets them keep whatever gold they found (He can always make more).
Quest 10: Castle of Mystery is the same, they fail to walk away with any significant amount of gold.
It is discovered during this time that it is actually Zargon guiding the orcs, which prompts the Emperor to act.
Quest 11, the Emperor rehired them because all subsequent heroes that came after them has failed. So he sends they off to kill some orcs in the Bastion of Chaos.
Quest 12: the Emperor's spies have discovered that the Star of the West was taken to Barrok Tor, the resting place of the Witch Lord, but when the heroes arrive they are met with little resistance and just a bunch of undead. I've altered this quest so that the heroes must pass through the crypt of the Witch Lord to leave. It was a trap. Zargon had the Star off the West taken here specifically so the heroes would awaken the Witch Lord. Only a pure minded wizard can open the door, breaking the spell that kept the Witch Lord asleep. But now that the Witch Lord is awake the undead can be controlled.
Quest 13: is the same the heroes accidentally woke the Witch Lord so they go to fnd the Spirit Blade to kill him while the Emporer assembled his armies to confront Zargon.
Quest 14 is the same, kill the Witch Lord. But the Emperor's army failed to defeat Zargon and he is now in peril.

Keller's Keep is the Rescue mission to save the Emperor.
Return of the Witch Lord is next. In fact, I'd like to give the Witch Lord a cameo in Keller's Keep to remind the heroes that he's still around, replacing either Gragor or Borrok with him.
Dark Company I'd like to play next (it's not actually given a timeline but the reward in the form of a Ring of Brilliance should be a big help in the harder quests to come).
Against the Ogre Hoard the heroes gain notoriety among the commoners for stopping the Ogres and mercenaries willingly join them in their quests.
Wizard's of Morcar/Zargon: mercenaries help in the fight as these wizards (some of them human) are aiding the forces of Chaos and causing terror among the realm of men.
Frozen Horror mercenaries are still available to help
Mage of the Mirror happens within the Elven Kingdom, away from everything else, so mercenaries do not accompany the heroes.

[benvoliothefirst]

Some very cool ideas in here Wally, thanks for sharing!

EDIT: I would love to incorporate some of these ideas into the "Perfect" quest books. Have you written them out like a formal quest intro anywhere, or do you prefer to leave the broad strokes as you've done here and let the EWP tell the story their own way? If you've got them written out somewhere I'd love to see 'em. (Steal 'em)