The Great Lich Debate (and necromancers, too)

[torilen]

A list of HQ monsters I got from way back in the day off aginn's inn had a lich included. It was really
just a beefed up spell caster, that's all.
I've actually been trying to decide how to make the lich "my own" for my own games and gaming worlds
that would be used for HQ rules. It has been a little difficult, since most of my Lich knowledge comes from
D&D and other fantasy sources, and HQ rules kind of limit what you can do with them, unless you really
start changing or adding your own house rules in there.
One of the main things my lich would have is an aura of fear - kind of like dragons - because they are so
powerful and (typically) so evil, and because they're undead, they have a permanent aura of probably around
50ft (10 spaces) that would cause fear to those in his presence.

[mo123813]

Very well said, drathe.

I've always played the Lich from the D&D rules. You know, the little description they have under all the monster facts and stuff? It's a cool monster. In fact, my HQ games always have the Witch King as the Lich King. I know, they got Witch King from Lord of the Rings, but Lich just sounds cooler then Witch. When I hear Witch, I think of Halloween.

[Tott]

In most fantasy settings a Lich is an undead creature of great power and intellect that has been reanimated by dark magical means. they may have chosen to undergo this process themselves or had the process forced onto them. in life they would have been very powerful magic users or influential leaders; kings, generals etc. in many fantasy settings they are bound to the world by a phylactery and may not be permanently killed until that mortal anchor is destroyed first.
the important thing about a lich (that separates them from most other undead creatures) is their intellect, they have retained or even enhanced the intellect that they had in life. however, regardless of how powerful they are, they may still be pawns of an even greater power.
id always assumed that the Witch King (who was himself a servant of Morcar) was a lich or a lich-like creature.
lich's are almost always depicted as being evil, selfish, power hungry and soulless creatures, obsessed with protecting their own existence and increasing their own power and knowledge. they are usually the leaders or a large undead horde.

a necromancer is a magic user who concentrates on calling the spirits of the departed or raising their bodies for his own purposes. due to many societies views on death and the soul a necromancer is often seen as evil because he 'violates' the remains of the dead or their souls for his own (often selfish) purpose. in a fantasy setting a necromancer is usually considered evil (although not necessaries so) and would have a similar spell set to a lich, although not as powerful as a lich.

[mo123813]

Though many necromancers lost in the power of their own works, and make themselves a Lich. BUT, Necromancers are not always evil. In fact, many of them could be great heroes.

[Tott]

necromancers would be more of an anti-hero though i think, along with assassin's, thieves, mercenaries and that sort of 'hero' class. technically i suppose any player controlled character would be a 'hero' regardless of their moral alignment.

[el_flesh]

OK no Lich in HQ officially...but how about a Necromancer...which would be the beginning steps to one...

I understood there was some Necromancer with spell cards for some official expansion or other?? Or is that for some other game?
Or someone's home made expansion? Thinking that there was some plastic figure HQ made for him too?

___________________________________________

The thing I have about all this is use of "evil" and "good"...I understand their off-the-wall use in western christianity, (ex: George Dubya) which I suppose is another subset of house rules.
Even so, in our games we would have a Paladin / Priest pretty much refusing to go along with the 'darkest' of the anti-heroes, the Necromancer. While the priest/paladin would try to save the 'soul' of the Thief, maybe even the ASSassin would be the limit of their efforts. But the Necromancer? Waaaaayyy too late.

[drathe]

Wizards of Zargon/Morcar has an enemy Necromancer with six unique spell cards. There are a few in fan Quests as well.

[mo123813]

Necromancer's Lair was a pretty cool fan-made Necromancer quest.
I disagree. I believe theives, assassins, and necromancers could make good heroes! That's like saying a half-orc is a bad idea for a hero (I made a Half-Orc character. Check it out under Heroquest Additions; Mo's Homebrewd Heroes)
Even though they have a bad side to them, they use it to help save the world. Besides, Necromancers are having trouble, since Zargon keeps stealing all the skeletons. They could be joining for their own selfish reasons. Same thing for thieves. They're in it for the gold stuff.

[el_flesh]

Ultimately it should be up to the player. What is your character's history? What spells or skills did he want to develop?
Does he want to work for the genuine help of society? Or is he only stringing 'friends' along, planning to betray them when the moment is right for him?

[torilen]

How about this, to sooth the minds of those who think necros and liches should always be evil.
To create a good-side counterpart to those two - perhaps have a priest/wizard type that can cast
similar spells or have similar abilities to the necro, except they border more on the good side.
Say, instead of calling up spirits and forcing them to fight for you, you summon spirits that
are willing to help you for a bit. Instead of stealing the last bit of life force from a dying
victim to boost your own life points, perhaps you "borrow" life force from strong, willing
subjects around you.
And for the lich, perhaps you are given extra long life, and you go with the idea that
(I think el flesh was explaining) - simply your body dies away due to old age, but your
mind and spirit are still in tact - you don't die - however, you keep the dead flesh
scraped off to keep away smell and disease.

how about that??