HeroQuest lost Quest Packs: Wizard and Dwarf Quest Pack

[Pancho]

Lucapaschi and Lestodante

Apologies if this question has been answered already, but what elements of these new packs are missing from your design notes? Is there anything at all that you don’t have?

On first impressions it sounds like you have pretty much everything you will need to bring these up to level of completion similar to the Elf and Barbadian Packs. The Inn is at your service, willing and able to help.

What we're missing is basically the art (cover, cards). Of course we miss the miniatures, but we know how they look like.
For the Wizard, there are little things to fix. We might have to come up with a card or two (have to double check if we at least have a description of the missing 2 to make 30).
For the Dwarf, it's a bit more complicated. We would have all the material, but it seems that same material went through a deep revision, which would leave us with a lot to come up with. There are some indication on how they may have wanted to complete that, but it's difficult to set a timeline with the latest ideas. Seems like there are about 3 stages: first draft, revision, directions to follow. It's not always easy to tell which note would fall in which of the two latter categories. Like, some monsters have been striked out, but the're still present in the revised maps. Sometimes the designer would strike out parts he felt were completed, rather than canceled. I'm thinking about going back to him to get some intel, asking in which direction he would/would have go/gone.

So, if I have to throw percentages, not considering art, WQP is probably 90% complete, the DQP might be 50/60% - pretty much all background and quests, some cards and some monsters.

Thanks, that’s very insightful.

It’s early days I know, but I guess you have a few options to consider.
You can have everyone you need working on just one pack, probably the Wizard one as it’s nearest completion, before moving onto to the other (basically using the same team of helpers for each).
Or you can try to complete both at the same time (by having two separate teams, or one big team that works on both projects at the same time).

The first approach has the benefits of greater focus, as well as the opportunity to learn as you go so that you’re firing on all cylinders by the time you get to the more complicated Dwarf pack. You’ll also generate more suspense and have the community excited for longer.
The second approach might get both projects done faster, plus you’ll have economy of scale working on your side for commissioning art and minis etc.

I have no computer skills so there’s no point in me offering to help with anything Like that. But I am good at big picture stuff like theme, storytelling, background, plus I have a lot of experience in game design and play testing. I’ll gladly chime in if you need any help with those things.
I’m a decent artist but not as good as Luis. If you need initial concept drawings done for free that can then be passed on to your chosen artist then I’m happy to help with those too. Dante and Luis have seen my concept work before.

Thanks for everything you have done so far and best of luck
(Donation on the way.)

[lucapaschi]

Lucapaschi and Lestodante

Apologies if this question has been answered already, but what elements of these new packs are missing from your design notes? Is there anything at all that you don’t have?

On first impressions it sounds like you have pretty much everything you will need to bring these up to level of completion similar to the Elf and Barbadian Packs. The Inn is at your service, willing and able to help.

What we're missing is basically the art (cover, cards). Of course we miss the miniatures, but we know how they look like.
For the Wizard, there are little things to fix. We might have to come up with a card or two (have to double check if we at least have a description of the missing 2 to make 30).
For the Dwarf, it's a bit more complicated. We would have all the material, but it seems that same material went through a deep revision, which would leave us with a lot to come up with. There are some indication on how they may have wanted to complete that, but it's difficult to set a timeline with the latest ideas. Seems like there are about 3 stages: first draft, revision, directions to follow. It's not always easy to tell which note would fall in which of the two latter categories. Like, some monsters have been striked out, but the're still present in the revised maps. Sometimes the designer would strike out parts he felt were completed, rather than canceled. I'm thinking about going back to him to get some intel, asking in which direction he would/would have go/gone.

So, if I have to throw percentages, not considering art, WQP is probably 90% complete, the DQP might be 50/60% - pretty much all background and quests, some cards and some monsters.

Thanks, that’s very insightful.

It’s early days I know, but I guess you have a few options to consider.
You can have everyone you need working on just one pack, probably the Wizard one as it’s nearest completion, before moving onto to the other (basically using the same team of helpers for each).
Or you can try to complete both at the same time (by having two separate teams, or one big team that works on both projects at the same time).

The first approach has the benefits of greater focus, as well as the opportunity to learn as you go so that you’re firing on all cylinders by the time you get to the more complicated Dwarf pack. You’ll also generate more suspense and have the community excited for longer.
The second approach might get both projects done faster, plus you’ll have economy of scale working on your side for commissioning art and minis etc.

I have no computer skills so there’s no point in me offering to help with anything Like that. But I am good at big picture stuff like theme, storytelling, background, plus I have a lot of experience in game design and play testing. I’ll gladly chime in if you need any help with those things.
I’m a decent artist but not as good as Luis. If you need initial concept drawings done for free that can then be passed on to your chosen artist then I’m happy to help with those too. Dante and Luis have seen my concept work before.

Thanks for everything you have done so far and best of luck
(Donation on the way.)

We took a better look at the DQP just now, and we're missing the second draft that incorporated much of the differences (we only have the artifact list (but that remained the same), mention of 4 treasure cards and the message from Mentor), so there will definitely be more work to be done if we can't get our hands on the full one, and that might be a challenge. We feel the best approach might be to tackle the WQP first, to get more experience and see how the team goes, and then move onto the more difficult task.
Art could be developed simultaneously, at least for that which we know for sure it's gonna be in there.
Bottom line: we might need your storytelling abilities.

by the way, Ogres in the DQP have 11/12 BP.

[lucapaschi]

Thanks moktira! Much appreciated! Seems my marriage is going to last a little longer!
She recently bought some expensive shoes so I could manage to use that against her.

[Anderas]

I think this topic is to big for a single thread. Could we get a sub forum for that?
- a thread for the rules section
- a thread for the artwork
- a thread per quest do iron out the things that need ironing
- easily a thread per playcard

[Kurgan]

Thanks moktira! Much appreciated! Seems my marriage is going to last a little longer!
She recently bought some expensive shoes so I could manage to use that against her.

Hopefully she's got her own pledge drive going elsewhere and you can meet in the middle.

[Kurgan]

What we're missing is basically the art (cover, cards). Of course we miss the miniatures, but we know how they look like.
For the Wizard, there are little things to fix. We might have to come up with a card or two (have to double check if we at least have a description of the missing 2 to make 30).
For the Dwarf, it's a bit more complicated. We would have all the material, but it seems that same material went through a deep revision, which would leave us with a lot to come up with. There are some indication on how they may have wanted to complete that, but it's difficult to set a timeline with the latest ideas. Seems like there are about 3 stages: first draft, revision, directions to follow. It's not always easy to tell which note would fall in which of the two latter categories. Like, some monsters have been striked out, but the're still present in the revised maps. Sometimes the designer would strike out parts he felt were completed, rather than canceled. I'm thinking about going back to him to get some intel, asking in which direction he would/would have go/gone.

Here's where it would be cool to try to connect with some of the people who worked on it to see if they can remember what was going on, or at least nudge in the right direction. As we know fans can fix anything (given enough time and brainpower) but if we're going for what they "would have wanted" that's probably the best bet if there are no notes or its unclear (you could make an executive decision at the end or put both options and leave it up to the Zargon who is running it at the time).


Preserving the raw material in digital form is probably the most important thing (after saving the historical documents) and the next would be ironing out the issues and completing it, but fans like me are very interested in the design process and cutting room floor as much as getting to play something new that would have been official.

The "finished product" whatever it may look like, ought to contain some notes, indicating what parts were original and what were amended out of necessity to make it playable, even if those new additions come from (ideally) the original designers that we've been able to contact in these later years. Even operating under the same kinds of restrictions they were put under (in terms of monsters and things) will help make it seem more authentic. Because we could give it 100 new cards and 50 new monsters (and ensure it never gets released and only a handful of people get to enjoy it, if at all!). It sounds like both packs were meant to be in the same vein as the EQP/BQP so that should be the goal. For the Dwarf stuff, you could in theory just include the different drafts (that exist, anyway) to fill out the material if there is nothing else to go on, but it might be a little boring. On the other hand it could be viewed as a "playable demo" rather than a single, unified, completed version which would necessarily be at least 50% "fan made." I mean in terms of story and quests first of all, then cards. Fudging the miniatures isn't such a big deal other than that the basic character concepts drive the rest of it through inspiration I suppose.

We took a better look at the DQP just now, and we're missing the second draft that incorporated much of the differences (we only have the artifact list (but that remained the same), mention of 4 treasure cards and the message from Mentor), so there will definitely be more work to be done if we can't get our hands on the full one, and that might be a challenge. We feel the best approach might be to tackle the WQP first, to get more experience and see how the team goes, and then move onto the more difficult task.
Art could be developed simultaneously, at least for that which we know for sure it's gonna be in there.
Bottom line: we might need your storytelling abilities.

by the way, Ogres in the DQP have 11/12 BP.

So some work is missing? Darn. Wonder if the seller has any clues? I love storytelling as well. The trick is getting into the mindset of these 1992 designers, but the notes should help provide that. They were clearly under a time crunch and driven by the art first and foremost.

[lucapaschi]

What we're missing is basically the art (cover, cards). Of course we miss the miniatures, but we know how they look like.
For the Wizard, there are little things to fix. We might have to come up with a card or two (have to double check if we at least have a description of the missing 2 to make 30).
For the Dwarf, it's a bit more complicated. We would have all the material, but it seems that same material went through a deep revision, which would leave us with a lot to come up with. There are some indication on how they may have wanted to complete that, but it's difficult to set a timeline with the latest ideas. Seems like there are about 3 stages: first draft, revision, directions to follow. It's not always easy to tell which note would fall in which of the two latter categories. Like, some monsters have been striked out, but the're still present in the revised maps. Sometimes the designer would strike out parts he felt were completed, rather than canceled. I'm thinking about going back to him to get some intel, asking in which direction he would/would have go/gone.

Here's were it would be cool to try to connect with some of the people who worked on it to see if they can remember what was going on, or at least nudge in the right direction. As we know fans can fix anything (given enough time and brainpower) but if we're going for what they "would have wanted" that's probably the best bet if there are no notes or its unclear (you could make an executive decision at the end or put both options and leave it up to the Zargon who is running it at the time).


Preserving the raw material in digital form is probably the most important thing (after saving the historical documents) and the next would be ironing out the issues and completing it, but fans like me are very interested in the design process and cutting room floor as much as getting to play something.

We took a better look at the DQP just now, and we're missing the second draft that incorporated much of the differences (we only have the artifact list (but that remained the same), mention of 4 treasure cards and the message from Mentor), so there will definitely be more work to be done if we can't get our hands on the full one, and that might be a challenge. We feel the best approach might be to tackle the WQP first, to get more experience and see how the team goes, and then move onto the more difficult task.
Art could be developed simultaneously, at least for that which we know for sure it's gonna be in there.
Bottom line: we might need your storytelling abilities.

by the way, Ogres in the DQP have 11/12 BP.

So some work is missing? Darn. Wonder if the seller has any clues? I love storytelling as well. The trick is getting into the mindset of these 1992 designers, but the notes should help provide that. They were clearly under a time crunch and driven by the art first and foremost.

It's what I'm trying to do. Seller is the one who made the overhaul, might have a copy somewhere, or may at least be able to tell us in which direction we could move. Hell, I'm even thinking about "hiring" him to rework from the corrected draft, even if he may not be willing to do that.
The only other option would be Mike Gray: he could have that second draft, but seeing how willing these people were in sharing stuff in the past 30 years, I'm not sure it would bring us anywhere.
Got the full package because I thought seeing the revisions to the Barb and Elf could help in finishing the other two QPs.

[Kurgan]

Well but was it that they were unwilling to share it, or just not legally allowed to do so (and didn't know anybody was interested)? Could still be worth a try. Anyway, even if all we have is some drafts... those could be released as demos and then fans can finish them whatever way they wanted to in a dozen different ways.

This is awesome enough that these are available. But it would be next level awesome if more material can be gleaned from these folks for old time's sake. I'm sure the fans can't pay them what they were getting from MB back in the day, but maybe they'd do it for the community.

[lucapaschi]

Well but was it that they were unwilling to share it, or just not legally allowed to do so (and didn't know anybody was interested)? Could still be worth a try. Anyway, even if all we have is some drafts... those could be released as demos and then fans can finish them whatever way they wanted to in a dozen different ways.

This is awesome enough that these are available. But it would be next level awesome if more material can be gleaned from these folks for old time's sake. I'm sure the fans can't pay them what they were getting from MB back in the day, but maybe they'd do it for the community.

I don't know if they're not willing, but I guess after 30 years, with no reboot in sight, they at least could have said something about the story, or asked the original designers if they were willing to share the material with us. I don't think they would have had a problem with that.

I hope we'll be able to relase the drafts, so it can be modded into anything the fans desire.

[Kurgan]

Yeah I mean looking back, we never found out what happened to Skullmar after Return of the Witch Lord. He just escaped and that was that... they deliberately left us that cliffhanger so the players would be inspired to make their own quests. Joe's "Crypt of Perpetual Darkness" ends on a cliffhanger as well in the mythic pack (and that's no guarantee that we'll ever get an official continuation of that one).

So if it's just 5 Dwarf quests (WOM was only 5 in its finished form) and that's that, then I'm okay with it, if that's all that can be done on this end, just saying. Hasbro has the ability to make it if they want to. But if it were a critical edition with draft one's version of the adventures and draft 2 (or 3's) version, that could be cool as well.