Overview of the Old World

[Davane]

So I was thinking a thread discussing history and races and regions of the Old World would be helpful to those of us who want to tie HQ to it. I know not all people want that (cough cough Kurgan), but a lot did not grow up with GW so therefore don’t know how it directly ties in and other possible Quest Packs awaiting to be unfolded.

I have all my HQ take place in the Warhammer world. When HQ stuff doesn't fit I just write it up so that it does. For example 'Adventure in Arcania' became 'Adventure in Averland'. 'Legacy of the White Mage' will start in Estallia rather than Alkanis.

That’s what I’m trying to do. Make HQ fit in 3rd edition setting, just not the timeline. A.K.A. alternate universe.

I don’t fully understand this alternative universe thing. I think it’s possible to fit what we know about HQ into the standard Warhammer fantasy history. That’s not to say that HQ is modern though, I.e. it doesn’t have be placed at the end of the historical timeline.

HQ takes place in the Warhammer world. We are told this. As far as fitting things in the timeline, they just don’t seem to fit. That’s what I mean by alternate universe, alternate reality, alternate timeline.

Just because it hasn't been officially recorded doesn't mean that it doesn't occur in the same timeline. If Morcar and Mentor are as subtle as they are made out to be, who says that they would even be recorded outside of a few vague notes, or simply forgotten in history?

[Davane]

Does this mean that Mentor is also some kind of quasi-divine being in this interpretation of the Hero Quest world?

Actually, this is quite possible. It's worth noting there are two possibilities for Mentor that would fit in with the Warhammer World around the time of HQ being published.

Firstly, there were gods of Law that opposed the gods of Chaos, that were just as alien to the races of the Warhammer World. We see one of these in Solkan, the god of Law behind Solkan's Amulet of AHQ. So, one of these could be Mentor, using Loretome to hide his own divinity - possibly even Solkan himself.

Then there's the fact that there originally was a FIFTH Chaos God, who sowed Chaos by specifically acting against the other four Chaos Gods. if I recall correctly, his name was Malar, and featured in the 1st. Ed WFRP books. So, it's possible that this Malar could take the form of Mentor, once again, using Loretome to hide his own divine nature.

You could even combine these two streams of thought - that is, Solkan/Malar are the same being, in different disguises, representing the duality of Mentor/Morcar, and the supposed duplicity of Zargon?

[Pancho]

So I was thinking a thread discussing history and races and regions of the Old World would be helpful to those of us who want to tie HQ to it. I know not all people want that (cough cough Kurgan), but a lot did not grow up with GW so therefore don’t know how it directly ties in and other possible Quest Packs awaiting to be unfolded.

I have all my HQ take place in the Warhammer world. When HQ stuff doesn't fit I just write it up so that it does. For example 'Adventure in Arcania' became 'Adventure in Averland'. 'Legacy of the White Mage' will start in Estallia rather than Alkanis.

That’s what I’m trying to do. Make HQ fit in 3rd edition setting, just not the timeline. A.K.A. alternate universe.

I don’t fully understand this alternative universe thing. I think it’s possible to fit what we know about HQ into the standard Warhammer fantasy history. That’s not to say that HQ is modern though, I.e. it doesn’t have be placed at the end of the historical timeline.

HQ takes place in the Warhammer world. We are told this. As far as fitting things in the timeline, they just don’t seem to fit. That’s what I mean by alternate universe, alternate reality, alternate timeline.

Is there any specific reason that Heroquest can’t fit into the standard Warhammer timeline though? Warhammer history spans thousands of years and experienced a great many Chaos invasions (at least two of which incidentally were led by a Chaos general named Morkar, both of these thousands of years apart).
Likewise there have been countless big bad Liche-type threats to the Empire, which could have been the Witch Lord under a different name.
It is the nature of both Chaos and the Undead for essentially the same threats to keep returning under different guises.

[Kurgan]

What if Stephen Baker were actually Mentor/Morcar/Zargon, who disguised himself in this world as a humble board-game developer, in order to create a base of operations, and secretly, opening portals to the other world, which was cleverly disguised as a fantasy game played by children and geeky adults?

Notice how the game's storyline matches the trajectory of his own career. Back in the day it was Rogar, or rather Gamesworkshop, that carried his visions into battle, or the market. He was defeated by the fickle forces of culture and forced to retreat to "lick his wounds." Now a new opportunity has arisen, and new "Heroes" are suddenly needed.

Having lost his former power as the original Hero Quest property faded into legend, and the scattering of the Games Workshop legions, he gathered his forces in secret, defeating the efforts of would-be usurpers, and launched a new attempt to dominate the world through a seeming innocuous board game. He tricked the masses, through his minion Hasbro, into thinking it had the power, and by raising funds from the fans themselves, he gained even more true followers. These fans began to think that they somehow had been keeping the game alive, that they were influencing the production, when all the while it was they were his puppets.

It all makes sense, even the stereotype of role playing gamers as basement dwellers (basement = dungeon, Mom even sounds like its short for Monster, cutting your game time short!). Collect the gold, drink the potions. Play the cards. Roll the dice. That's what he's been doing, and writing it down on his character sheet. So much preparing, scheming, training the player to think like Zargon... all the while becoming more his servant! This whole campaign was a setup for his true plans, don't you see?

Think about it.. the secrecy, the glassy eyed expressions of the Q&A team... the toying with the emotions of fans (all while maintaining goodwill towards himself). The "training quest" designed to "test" us... all part of the MASTER PLAN. The game couldn't change much... because the magic wasn't in the game, the game IS the magic spell! And now he's bringing together the features developed in the different territories together, making it even more powerful in the process. Hasbro doesn't know what they've been sitting on...

He is building "Lore Tome" for real (in its primitive form in the late 80's it predicted his rise to power, even his return, imagine what it could do when finished!). All the while, pretending to be both hero and villain, when his true goal is to seize power, by knowing the past and the future, without taking heed of the dangerous forces he is summoning!

Heed well, my friends, this warning. Let us go back to pretending it's "just a game." I did not say this. I am not here.

Please continue...

[thequester]

I see you have just folded space from Ix

[Kurgan]

Many machines there... new machines, even.

[j_dean80]

Is there any specific reason that Heroquest can’t fit into the standard Warhammer timeline though? Warhammer history spans thousands of years and experienced a great many Chaos invasions (at least two of which incidentally were led by a Chaos general named Morkar, both of these thousands of years apart).
Likewise there have been countless big bad Liche-type threats to the Empire, which could have been the Witch Lord under a different name.
It is the nature of both Chaos and the Undead for essentially the same threats to keep returning under different guises.

I haven’t gotten to delve into all the books yet myself. It is just what I keep hearing from people who have tried to piece it together. I am all for it fitting (and preferably hope it does), but am ready to lick my wounds with an alternate reality if it won’t.

[The Admiral]

As far as fitting things in the timeline, they just don’t seem to fit.

In what way?

[Davane]

I don't think that the HQ events would necessarily be recorded in Warhammer history. I mean, do you really think that the Empire would admit to their Emperor being trapped in Karak Varn, and having to be rescued by a bunch of plucky murder-hobos?

You'd have better luck not trying to tie it to the Warhammer Line, but instead simply writing it in.

It's worth noting that a lot of what happens in HQ is prevented by the Heroes, so the big events don't really happen. The Witchlord, for example, is a threat, but doesn't actually attack the Empire, because the Heroes defeated him in RotWL, and his army never fully arose. The only big events in GS and KK are the Emperor going to Black Fire Pass and getting trapped in Karak Varn, which could be related to any number of greenskin attacks on the Empire, in all fairness.

I need to read up on my Warhammer Lore to do this properly (been some time since I used anything deeper than an overview for background purposes), but I'd set it in the earlier part of the Empire, probably shortly after Magnus the Pious becomes Emperor. The Empire is still primitive enough that the events of HQ could have happened, even if they weren't necessarily documented. The Emperor and his army are busy claiming lands and fighting off unusually coordinated greenskin attacks on the borders of the Empire, and at least one of these happens to be near Karak Varn.

It's worth noting that WFRP 1st edition notes that there was vast fragmentation of the Empire at around 1,000 years after it was established by Sigmar. It's also worth noting that in the Empire Army Book 4th edition, that the background shows that the first 1,000 years of Imperial History is lost, making this a reasonable time to set the events of HQ. It's also worth noting that in 1111, the current Emperor, Boris Goldgather, died of the Black Plague, so this is a particularly grim period for the Empire, and really, any time around 1000 would be suitable, or even a few years after the Black Plague, say 1125 could be reasonable times to set the HQ events...

[The Admiral]

I don't think that the HQ events would necessarily be recorded in Warhammer history. I mean, do you really think that the Empire would admit to their Emperor being trapped in Karak Varn, and having to be rescued by a bunch of plucky murder-hobos?

You'd have better luck not trying to tie it to the Warhammer Line, but instead simply writing it in.

Agreed.