Plate Armour

[Draven]

In all the time I've played heroquest, not one character has ever bought the Plate Armour. Not really anything to do with the large price tag, but because of the one dice roll restriction. Just wondering if anyone else has found this to be the case, and if so whether they have changed their rules of the Plate Armour card. I was thinking along the lines of having some other restrictions instead of movement, eg you cant jump pit traps etc. Cant really think of a balanced way to use this equipment. I dont really want to complicate things too much. Any ideas?

[drathe]

I've had a few purchase them, but only one use it and they did so quite effectively.

When a door was opened revealing a room full of tough monsters, they would equip the plate mail as they wouldn't be moving very much, or very far until the room was clear.

[sadkitchen]

@Draven
Agreed. The first time I played (I was young) I got my Hero Plate Mail armor the second I had enough money. Then imedieatly after that quest I traded it (and a few extra gold) back in for my Chain Mail. The +1 defense just wasn't worth it.

@drathe
That idea never even crossed my mind. And though what your player did follows what the rules state, the Zargon I played with would have home-brewed that a hero carrying Plate Mail could only move 1 Red Die, after the first quest that it was attempted. (We always play that rules cannot be changed mid-quest).

-SadKitchen

[torilen]

My thought has been this: Instead of the 1d6 for movement it was as follows:
Chain Mail = 2d6 - 1
(Scale Mail = 2d6 - 2, jump requires 1 extra successful die rolled)
Plate Mail = 2d6 - 3, jump requires 2 extra successful dice rolled

Something like that. Of course, minimum movement is always 2. Simply put, I would
still give a movement penalty, but not as bad - in place of the worst part of the movement
penalty, give a minor penalty in something else. That makes it somewhat more worth it.
You could always increase the defense benefit, as well.
OR - we've been walking about advancement in another thread - offer a way for the hero
to learn to use the armor without the penalty.

Just some thoughts.

[Ethica]

In all the time I've played heroquest, not one character has ever bought the Plate Armour. Not really anything to do with the large price tag, but because of the one dice roll restriction. Just wondering if anyone else has found this to be the case,

I was just about to make this same observation after reading the "Is 2 dice suitable for movement" thread.

I've never known anyone to buy platemail either. -1D6 is just too high a penalty.

I think it's fair though, because Borin's armour provides 4CD which makes it truely awesome.

[Draven]

Good points from all. Particularly like torilens idea of keeping the movement restriction, but allowing a slight movement increase. Will try something along those lines and see if anyone decides to try Plate Mail out.

[Daedalus]

In the Is 2 Red Dice Best for Movement? thread in the Rules section, I went with armor penalties of -2 for Chain Mail, and -4 for Plate Mail. The Dwarf only suffers half of those penalties. Wearing Plate Mail, the Barbarian moves 2-7 or 5 squares, the Elf moves 1-6 or 4 squares, while the Dwarf moves 2-7 or 5 squares.

Only the Elf retains the heavy Plate Mail penalty fully for his random move, while his fixed move affords him a slightly better assumed roll of 4. Both the Barbarian and the Dwarf are better-off with random moves of 2-7, which is 1 square better than the original Plate Mail rule. Their fixed moves improve a bit more at 5 squares. That's only 2 less than an average roll of 7 provided by the 2 red movement dice. With the original Plate Mail rule, a Hero moves 3 or 4 fewer squares each turn.

[Daedalus]

I've had a few purchase them, but only one use it and they did so quite effectively.

When a door was opened revealing a room full of tough monsters, they would equip the plate mail as they wouldn't be moving very much, or very far until the room was clear.

@drathe
That idea never even crossed my mind. And though what your player did follows what the rules state, the Zargon I played with would have home-brewed that a hero carrying Plate Mail could only move 1 Red Die, after the first quest that it was attempted. (We always play that rules cannot be changed mid-quest).

-SadKitchen

SadKitchen- I'd say your Zargon player had it right. drathe's player was following a house rule. Page 12 of the rules state that there are 6 possible actions in a turn- ATTACK, CAST A SPELL, SEARCH FOR TREASURE, SEARCH FOR SECRET DOORS, SEARCH FOR TRAPS, and DISARM A TRAP. The next page notes 2 exceptions during movement that are NOT actions- looking and opening doors. Nearly immediately following is a short list of activities that are also not considered actions that may be done at any time during a Hero's turn- getting caught in a trap, drinking a potion, and picking things up. None of those allowable actions defined by the rules include equipping Plate Mail.

Page 22 contains the closest thing to relevant information about equipping armor. Found under How A Hero Defends, it is mentions that a Hero rolls more defend dice after purchasing armor. Armor can only be purchased at the Armory between Quests, so that is when Plate Mail is equipped. I think its okay to change armor between Quests as well, as it's permissible to change armor anyway when purchasing and equipping new armor.

I think weapons should be treated differently, as equipping a weapon from a scabbard or the like is basically picking a thing up. If a weapon was already equipped, it would require a free hand to hold or must be dropped. Later, when no monsters were visible, a dropped weapon could be picked up and retained just as treasure or artifacts are. As a practical limit to counter cheeze, only one weapon (or a shield) can be picked up/equipped in a turn while attacking. -edit

[Ethica]

Agreed Daedalus, "equipping" a suit a plate armour would take ages.

The problem with weapons though is about weight. If the number of weapons you were allowed to carry wasn't a problem you could easily say "I'm going to use a battle axe when I'm attacking and a broadsword and shield when I'm defending". To simplify all this I only allow 1 main weapon (broadsword, battleaxe, spear, staff), 1 back-up weapon (throwing axe, shortsword, crossbow) and the armour you will be allowed to wear (no shield with battleaxe). I think this is a perfectly fair system, I don't think a hero should be allowed to bear 20 different swords each having advantages for a different kind of monster.

[el_flesh]

Exactly. And pShawww says that it would make no fashion sense, either.
Beernut made the weapons available between quests; even being in one dungeon spread over a few quests - there is a small supply 'convoy' that goes along with your group, since you need to be equipped and fed.
Treasures you find go into the convoy; maybe your lackey carries them...

As for

(We always play that rules cannot be changed mid-quest).

- it's a good idea! We find some rules change, somewhat arbitrarily; something we remember working before doesn't work a year later...it isn't the DM being unfair; it's just realizing what approximates the "reality" of this magical fantasy immersiveness more.