silkcandy wrote:Zargon doesn't think heroes should be able to use their crossbows from all the way down the hall or way across the room. The Armory card says it can be used whenever a hero can see a monster, just not from an adjacent square. Does anyone have an answer that will solve this argument once and for all?
As the argument and decades roll on, I thought I would have a go at answer the OPs question, once and for all (yeah right) in light of my attempt at
Polishing the Second EditionTaking into account the abundant technical information provided on this thread this Zargon (Morcar) can safely state that he has no issue with the Crossbow having a maximum effective range of at least 25 squares and therefore being effectively unlimited within the game. Boom!
But regarding the targeting a diagonal square question...
SE Rules of Play wrote:Your opponent must be visible, as with casting a spell. There is no maximum range for firing the crossbow or throwing a weapon. However you may not use the crossbow or throw a weapon if you are adjacent to your opponent.
Also let me draw your attention to the following rule which at the moment probably seems irrelevant to this discussion (and it may indeed turn out to be irrelevant)
SE Rules of Play wrote:To attack a monster or a character, you must be in one of the four squares: to the side, front or rear. You cannot attack diagonally.
Taking the second rule as an example, you could argue that it isn't strictly speaking correct or at least it is not "the whole truth" but the way I see it is that it is an example of a rule that is correct in the limited context in which it was intended. Rules are often presented in a layered way, introducing fresh players to the basic rules, then layering complexity on top with later additions, expansions, exceptions or special conditions, either within the same rulebook, other material, future expansions and so on. So in that example above this would change once you purchase a Spear or encounter a Monster armed with a Spear and so on.
So back to the rule under discussion and I found myself asking why would that rule be included in the rulebook..."you may not use the crossbow or throw a weapon if you are adjacent to your opponent."
In reality there is no reason why I couldn't stand, with a loaded crossbow, as an opponent closed the gap with me until they were close enough to strike with their hand-to-hand weapon, and then shoot them with the crossbow. However to represent that in the simple and abstract world of HeroQuest rules opens the door to a significant amount of complexity.
If in the above example my crossbow bolt fails to kill or even hit my opponent, then he will be able to strike at me and I must defend, what am I defending with, can I use a Shield that I have in this situation, if I survive his attack, did I get the chance to reload my crossbow so can I use it for the next attack, if not then do we need stats on attacking in close combat with an unloaded crossbow, or did I fail to reload my crossbow due to be in combat, but then did I manage to stow it and draw another weapon, does it depend on the type of weapon, if I didn't have time to stow the crossbow, could I have switched it to my off-hand and drawn a shortsword, in that situation does it sort of count like as a shield...
Even if I kill my opponent with my crossbow shot, then I could get attacked by a second opponent, can I use the crossbow at point blank range on him too, did I get the chance to reload it, did I take the opportunity of the break between the two attacks to switch weapons, do we have to include some mechanism of tracking the loaded/unloaded state of a crossbow at all times...
And so on.
I think in order to avoid that complexity, and keep it simple and abstract, the designers toned down the "realism" and complexity and instead opted to keep a distance between hand-to-hand attacks and missile attacks and intended that never the twain shall meet. Hand-to-hand attacks take place when you have an opponent in an adjacent square (where missile attacks cannot be used) and missile attacks take place when you do NOT have an opponent in an adjacent square (where hand-to-hand weapons can NOT be used). This 'gap' created when either you or your opponents are moving into hand-to-hand combat range allows you to assume that you have switched to your hand-to-hand weapon array irrespective to what you may have had in your hands prior to that point.
I also think this is why the crossbow doesn't have, and doesn't need, a 'cannot be combined with shield' comment, as it was never intended that hand-to-hand combat would take place with a crossbow in hand.
So, if you accept my proposal, then this clarifies a couple of points.
1. Missile attacks happen outside of hand-to-hand combat range, so when hand-to-hand combat range is extended from adjacent to adjacent and diagonal, with the introduction of the Spear for example, then the missile attack 'prohibition' would in my opinion extend out to cover those squares also.
2. The rule as written doesn't state that you cannot attack an opponent with a missile weapon if they are in an adjacent square, it states that "you may not use the crossbow or throw a weapon if you are adjacent to your opponent", which I take that to mean that, in the expanded context, you cannot use the crossbow or any other missile weapon (or throw a throwing weapon) if you have an opponent within hand-to-hand combat range, that is adjacent or diagonal, even if the intended target of the attack is further away. This makes sense to me, the idea of being able to raise your crossbow, steady your aim, and shoot at a target six squares away is likely to be impaired by having an Orc stood behind you repeatedly bashing you over the head with an axe.
The only small fly in this otherwise perfect ointment, is when a situation occurs with a hero and a monster exchanging crossbow fire, and one or both are armed with shields, how many DD to they use, do they get the +1DD from the shield. To be honest this happens rarely enough that it isn't much of a loose end...EDIT: And I think I may have answered that one in this other thread
Crossbow--2 handed or can use a shield?