Borin's Armor clarification

[HispaZargon]

I've always viewed Borin's Armour as being Platemail without the speed penalty, but if you look under the Pit of Darkness rules in AtOH, Borin's Armour is actually treated as Chain Mail. As such, the magical enhancement of Borin's Armour isn't that it has no speed penalty, but that it is magically tougher than standard Chainmail, making it much more powerful.

Hi, I trend to simplify the use of this artifact under NA rules environment as follows: Borin's Armour is a plate mail that just weights as a chain mail due to its magical characteristics and may not be used by the Wizard, that's all. Of course, saying "weights as a chain mail" means that it does not reduce the hero's movement capability. Additionally, I consider the helmet shown in the picture of NA card as some kind of errata due to the reasons that have been probably discussed many times before.

This remembers me that Borin's Armour and Elven Chain Mail of EQP are in fact the same, except the elven armour may be only used by the Elf.

[HispaZargon]

The European version does not restrict the wizard from wearing it, as far as I know.
However the North American version does indeed specify that he can't.

I didn't think much about it until I saw the European sticker album acknowledge the fact... !

Yeah, under EU strict rules environment, I think is quite clear that the Wizard can wear the Borin's Armour without any restriction. Once again, the EU version tried to have a more balanced game between the four heroes, in general allowing the Wizard to be better protected than he may be in NA version.

[wallydubbs]

I've always viewed Borin's Armour as being Platemail without the speed penalty, but if you look under the Pit of Darkness rules in AtOH, Borin's Armour is actually treated as Chain Mail. As such, the magical enhancement of Borin's Armour isn't that it has no speed penalty, but that it is magically tougher than standard Chainmail, making it much more powerful.

This remembers me that Borin's Armour and Elven Chain Mail of EQP are in fact the same, except the elven armour may be only used by the Elf.

Perhaps I missed such a statement in Against the Ogre Horde, I do not recall any specifications in that expansion.
I would've considered Borin's Armor to be platemail and tripled down on the damage from a Pit of Darkness (assuming the heroes don't lose it in RotWL)
So in reference to the Pit of Darkness and its effects, that's the only discernible difference I can see between Borin's Armor and Elven Chain Mail.

[Kurgan]

Several of the EQP artifacts say "elf" on there but only a select few say only usable by the Elf. So I wouldn't insist only the Elf can use those others...

I mean when you get the Elven Chain Mail, you are playing a solo quest AS the Elf, so it makes sense that he'd get it, but he could give it away to another hero in order to wear something else (though the question would be why since it's about the best armor you can get). But the Elf could get killed, the Barbarian or Dwarf gets his stuff and is allowed to wear it...

[HispaZargon]

Several of the EQP artifacts say "elf" on there but only a select few say only usable by the Elf. So I wouldn't insist only the Elf can use those others...

I mean when you get the Elven Chain Mail, you are playing a solo quest AS the Elf, so it makes sense that he'd get it, but he could give it away to another hero in order to wear something else (though the question would be why since it's about the best armor you can get). But the Elf could get killed, the Barbarian or Dwarf gets his stuff and is allowed to wear it...

Hi, I think you could be also right. The problem with Elven Chain Mail may be that there is no artifact card for it where it would be clearly explained if it is limited to only be worn (or not) by the Elf but, anyway, the questbook does not tell that the rest of the heroes cannot use it... which means that it could be also worn by the Wizard? Mmm... Borin's Armour may not be used by Wizard in NA rules but Elven Chain Mail yes... quite interesting this point.

[Karlssonontheroof]

I think the rules lawyers who are slavishly following the Borin's armour text should note that is does not state that you cannot combine it with a helmet, a shield, chainmail or even plate mail.

This is perhaps not an oversight, as the artefact is not in fact an armour item. So by specifically only giving a Hero 4 defend dice, this gives the artefact a limit so it wont stack defend dice with any other items (even a shield), and give the hero potential in the later game to progress by buying enough armour to supersede it.
*With an added bonus of preserving game balance in the early game (no invincible Hero) and less of of difference if losing the item in that dreaded trap in RotWL.

If you are allowing Borins to be combined with a helmet, using the rules as written you should also allow it to be combined with chainmail (and plate mail) giving a wearer of Borin's a max defend dice total of 7 or 8. This is of course ridiculous,


I personally would give an exception to this and allow Borins to be combined with a shield and categorise the artefact as an armour (basically making it a chain mail + helmet). This is still a mighty good find (value 625 gold).

[Karlssonontheroof]

In my house rules I include an approx. 0.5 defend dice cloak of protection (allowing a reroll of a pre-nominated defend die, no movement penalty), and give a minor movement penalty to wearers of chain mail (max speed = starting body points), and make Borins a chain mail with no movement penalty. Making Borins a special item, and mostly equivalent to a 500gp Chainmail, since you need to get a Helmet to make it equivalent to the 4 dice the official card states.

[wallydubbs]

I mean when you get the Elven Chain Mail, you are playing a solo quest AS the Elf, so it makes sense that he'd get it, but he could give it away to another hero in order to wear something else (though the question would be why since it's about the best armor you can get). But the Elf could get killed, the Barbarian or Dwarf gets his stuff and is allowed to wear it...

Hi, I think you could be also right. The problem with Elven Chain Mail may be that there is no artifact card for it where it would be clearly explained if it is limited to only be worn (or not) by the Elf but, anyway, the questbook does not tell that the rest of the heroes cannot use it... which means that it could be also worn by the Wizard? Mmm... Borin's Armour may not be used by Wizard in NA rules but Elven Chain Mail yes... quite interesting this point.

Take it or leave it, but it's my opinion that this mythical "Elven Chainmail" was never meant to exist. As there is no artifact card for it, it is my belief that something was misconstrued in the later part of the production of that game, "with a set of magical elven chainmail armor." It's the word set that throws me off here. I believe the intention was for the Elf to rewarded with a set of Magical Elven Bracers. It's possible they had intended to make an Elven Chainmail artifact too but the expansion pack was so poorly rushed through production, the card makers and the quest map makers were too compartmentalized to be in synch with each other:
A further example of this is that all enemy spell casters meant to have the "Reanimation" Chaos Spell are segregated from the Undead and by extension have no use for it.
Also by accepting the Elven Chainmail, the Magical Elven Bracers are not accessible according to the quest notes.
This isn't to say that Elven Chainmail wouldn't be a great artifact to have, but maybe part of the reason it was scrapped is because it would be the same artifact as Borin's Armor, since the only distinction of the two lies in the Pit of Darkness, which only came out in Europe.

I think the rules lawyers who are slavishly following the Borin's armour text should note that is does not state that you cannot combine it with a helmet, a shield, chainmail or even plate mail.

This is perhaps not an oversight, as the artefact is not in fact an armour item. So by specifically only giving a Hero 4 defend dice, this gives the artefact a limit so it wont stack defend dice with any other items (even a shield), and give the hero potential in the later game to progress by buying enough armour to supersede it.
*With an added bonus of preserving game balance in the early game (no invincible Hero) and less of of difference if losing the item in that dreaded trap in RotWL.

If you are allowing Borins to be combined with a helmet, using the rules as written you should also allow it to be combined with chainmail (and plate mail) giving a wearer of Borin's a max defend dice total of 7 or 8. This is of course ridiculous,


I personally would give an exception to this and allow Borins to be combined with a shield and categorise the artefact as an armour

The problem with that logic is that in the American Game System specifies that Borin's Armor is, in fact, a type of plate mail. Or are you referring to strictly the European version? This may explain why it might be regarded as chainmail in Against the Ogre Horde, if I remember correctly there was more clarity in the NA version of Borin's Armor that was lacking in the EU version. The only confusion that Borin's Armor set in me was its potential combination with a helmet, as the picture portrays Borin's Armor with a helmet.

[Karlssonontheroof]

"The problem with that logic is that in the American Game System specifies that Borin's Armor is, in fact, a type of plate mail. "

That's just flavour text. Since the UK version has the same text it would mean that the UK Borin's would also require a cross-reference to the plate mail armour and therefore restrict the wizard from wearing it; which we know from the sticker pack that the wizard can indeed wear it (is shown wearing Borins in a picture).

[wallydubbs]

"That's just flavour text. Since the UK version has the same text it would mean that the UK Borin's would also require a cross-reference to the plate mail armour and therefore restrict the wizard from wearing it; which we know from the sticker pack that the wizard can indeed wear it (is shown wearing Borins in a picture).

This is not true, the European version simply states: "Borin's Armor allows you to roll four combat dice on your defence." This says nothing about the wizard, makes no specifics regarding platemail, chainmail nor helmets, which reasons why it was more specific in the North American version:
"This magical suit of plate mail allows the wearer to roll four combat dice in defense. Unlike normal plate mail, this mysterious, ultralight metal does not slow down it's wearer. May not be used by the Wizard. "

A much broader distinction is given in the North American version, as the European one us too vague and lead to multiple interpretations.
The US version specifies it's plate mail, neither plate nor chainmail can be worn by the Wizard. The European version doesn't say it's either and nor does it disqualify the Wizard from wearing it.
As a matter of fact, none of the European artifacts disqualify the Wizard from making use of them.
The Spirit Blade and Orc's Bane aren't even specified to be Broadswords or Short Swords, respectively, thus the Wizard is allowed to wield them!
I could also point out that the Wand of Recall doesn't disqualify the Barbarian and Dwarf in the European version either.
The Wizard, having such limitations in the North American version, doesn't really get a chance to shine as the main character. He's always there for "support" but doesn't usually get the final blow against the boss.

For some in the European game, given the number of characters, weapons and armor, some play that the cards are the only pieces of equipment the heroes can buy, as in only one hero can wield the battle axe, only 2 helmets can be bought, the card goes to the hero that bought it, so on and so forth. And it's still a matter of conjecture to some whether this is the way it was meant to be played or not. So in regards to Borin's Armor being 4 defense dice, instead of +2 defense, some can assume this encapsulates the helmet too.
This is not the way I view it, though, i play it by the North American rules.