How difficult is the US version?

[Leander]

Back in 1992 we played the EU version of HeroQuest and the Witchlord expansion. I was the dungeon master and everything was way too easy for the heroes. 1 BP, even for the boss monsters...come on. In addition, the text on the fire spells (Fire of Wrath, Ball of Flame) was misleading because it said that the spell inflicts 1 damage or 2...and the monster may defend with two dice. Each shield reduces the damage by 1. As monsters got attacked we were also sure that each MONSTER shield reduces the damage was meant (it just said shield). The chance to roll 2! monster shields against the Ball of Flame spell is ridiculously low. And 2 monster shields are needed as even the strongest boss monster has only 1 BP.
The boss monsters couldn't even attack because the were dead at once.

The US versions has multiple body points...more monsters and more traps. I have both adventure books and know the difference between the two versions.
But how difficult are the US quests actually? Can we just start playing the basic quest and then Kellars Keep and RotW without any modifications or is it too easy or too difficult? Who has played all quests?

For example, the EU edition already has many monsters in the first quest of Kellars Keep. The US edition has like 6-7 additional monsters. Another quest has 17 monsters instead of 10 (EU) AND 6 additional spear traps. It's really interesting to see the differences...the US version has more items to find which makes everything more exciting. The quest The Dwarven Forge adds a secret corridor with a treasure chest and lots of gold in contrast to the EU version whose layout just doesn't make sense. You actucally find the part of the Stone Map in a treasure chest not in the proximity of the Dwarven Forge...and you don't even have to enter the Dwarven Forge to get the Stone Map.

[knightkrawler]

Everytime I see the differences posted or see them in the quest maps,
I like the NA version so much more.
There simply was more thought behind it after the creators saw how many weaknesses the European version had.

[drathe]

Unless you limit the release of armoury weapons over the course of the games system, they are still pretty easy with the American rules. Monsters have a chance to live longer, but once the heroes have all their armour and weapons, monsters fall quickly. Even bosses. Normally, I allow significant monsters (bosses) to use white shields while defending and often increase their BP by 75-100%. They're bosses for a reason and their stats/abilities should reflect that. It also allows them to live long enough for Morcar/Zargon to enjoy a couple Chaos Spells.

I've never played the EU version, but after many years with the American rules, I can't imagine playing EU style with 1 BP. Chaos Warriors die easily enough with 3BP let alone 1.

[Leander]

Thanks. drathe, do you play with house rules or standard rules? I've started another round of Luchbrick's HeroQuest in which monsters always move towards the heroes and try to attack...so the best way to fight is to have 1 hero stand in front of the room full of monsters and kill them one by one...and only 1 monster can attack at a time (or two the most if one monster attacks, then leaves and another one moves and attacks)...it's kinda boring though...but if all heroes entered the room to fight the monsters in an open fight it would be too dangerous. How do you play in this situation? Does Morcar have his monsters wait instead of moving to the door and wait for the heros to enter the room? How do you handle it?

[drathe]

Depends on the room (ie contains traps) and the monsters.

I tend to play monsters as characters of their own. Mind points often being their intelligence when it comes to luring Heroes into traps or coordinating attacks.

Goblins - enjoy strength in numbers and being led by Orcs or Fimir. They cower and flee when their leaders are killed or their numbers diminish. When solo, they will attempt to attack the weakest target. If their attacks fail, they will try to flee.
Orcs - like attacking, or sitting back while Goblins do all the work. They will sometimes lure heroes into traps. They will always attack the hero who attacked them last out of vengeance, even if they were focusing on another target previously.
Fimir - will lead Goblins and Orcs. They will almost always lure Heroes into traps, hide in corners to avoid arrows etc. and fight strategically.
Zombies - are mindless. They will attack the nearest target, always.
Skeletons - normally attack the nearest target, but may go after a hero who recently tried to harm them if they're within a few squares away.
Mummies - are like zombies unless they are special in the notes. As in guardians of tombs and ancient artifacts.
Chaos Warriors - I play them as if they are Morcar/Zargons "heroes". They will wait for the heroes to enter a room, lure them into traps, hide in safe corners, lead Goblins, Orcs and Fimir, and fight strategically.
Gargoyles... they're mostly special in the notes. If not, they just attack whomever.

Ogres... they're looking for a good meal. They'll go after what ever looks tasty or seems to be easy prey.

I only have a little bit of experience with the Mage of the Mirror and Frozen Horror monsters. Most of them have special abilities and I play them around that most of the time.
Giant Wolves... what do big mean dogs do? Engage, often attack from behind, coordinate in groups and go for the easiest prey.
Elven Warriors and Archers are very intelligent.
Ice Gremlins - always try to use their steal and run away ability. Only fight when trapped or caught.
Yeti - move and attack the nearest target
Polar Warbears - focus on the stronger Heroes (because 4/4 against a Wizard is just plain mean).


I used to play standard rules, but with my latest groups, I've introduced the Tiered Armoury (slows hero stat progression, gives heroes something to look forward to and makes weaker weapons more relevant as later released items are kept secret), chests are separate objects that need to be opened from the front (makes certain traps relevant and creates some competition among the heroes). I've allowed the Wizard to use all four elemental spell sets and cast each spell twice (this has made the wizard more useful overall and it's now an excellent support character too. Downside is the wizard has too much at the beginning. Aeryn and I have been working on a special artifact for the wizard to be introduced about mid-way through the main system that you can slowly add to. Each addition allows the wizard to double the spells of a particular element/type. Then the wizard will slowly grow along with the other heroes). Added some of the treasure cards from the EU system to the deck for KK and WL (something new) and lowered the prices of most potions in the Alchemist Shop significantly (now heroes actually purchase and regularly use them). I've also split the potions from KK and WL two for KK and two more added come WL. For OH, I've introduced the combat cards on the card page since the heroes didn't get anything new in that pack. They're pretty fun. Especially when Morcar/Zargon gets one Chaos Combat card for every Hero Combat card the heroes choose to take. In later expansions, the wizard gets the WM spells added to his spell book, and the elf gets the elf spells. They don't need to choose certain cards or sets, they just add them to what they have.

I also sometimes give bonuses at the end of a quest for good role-playing of hero characters. Potions of different types mostly, sometimes random spell scrolls. Role-playing characters makes the game more entertaining for everyone. And some good fun *lemony goodness* happens as a result.

[Sjeng]

nice. I might just switch to the US quest notes for the Witch Lord and further reading this

[knightkrawler]

I use similar codices for different monster types, writing rules for those.
Many of these rules are from Daedalus and other sources.

[Leander]

Are your monsters able to walk across traps without setting them off? I've always wondered how they know where a trap is and how NOT to set it off.

Tiered armory sounds interesting...I also had thought about random shops...so not all euqipment is available after each quest but the merchant has random items for sale at a random price, e.g. [basic price] + or - x gold.

My initial question how difficult or how good and balanced the US version is should be my answer where to start. I'm not sure if I should play HQ out of the box or if I should add my additional features that I've made up over some time. My main goal is to expand the original game, to add some depth but without becoming too complex (as in Descent).

My ideas:

1) US version of HQ
2) Maybe combat cards...but something better such as...
...3) Skills. Every 2 or 3 quests a hero is allowed to learn 1 new skill. The skills are class-related. The skills can be used once each quest.

Problem: should a hero be allowed to use his skills at any time or are the effects randomly triggered? I don't want the heroes not to use their skills until the boss monster and then slaughter it with ease because of the skills. The skills should be used throught the quest.

3) Runes. You can find runes and take them to the enchanter. He is able to enchant your weapon. Each rune only exists once in the game. You can only use 1 enchanted weapon and 1 enchanted armor/shield/helmet.
Short swords are no longer useless because you can buy them and have them enchanted. The effect of a rune is random so you roll a D12...you can even get bad effects.
Some runes are always active (e.g. + automatic hit against undead creatures) while others are randomly activated. If a hero has an enchanted weapon or armor he always rolls 1 red die together with the dice.
This system is similar to Diablo in which there is a x% change for additional damage, fire damage or something like that.

Basically, the runes are an advantage for the heroes. The monsters get skills as compensation, too. During a fight they also roll the red die. If a 6 is rolled (or a 5 or 6, depending on the monster) the monster skill is used. Goblins are allowed to move, attack, move for example (they flee after the attack), Zombies are able to come back from the dead (if the Zombie is killed but rolls a 6 it is allowed to come back to "life" in its next turn)...Fimirs are able to attack with their tails in addition to their weapons etc.

In order to implement my additions to the game both the basic game and the new features must be balanced...and this is the problem.

[knightkrawler]

My Undead roll dice for movement (zombie and mummy 1D4+1, skeleton 1D8) and always use full movement to recklessly attack.
Zombies attack the nearest hero, mummies the weakest (Body points), skeletons the weakest (Defend dice).
By using full movement they can end up on traps, which I will spring.

Monsters with 1 mind point (animals) spring them, too.

Monsters with 2 mind points or more will try to avoid springing traps; I consider them to know where the traps are.

The skill system you're planning...
is exactly what I did.

First I worked out a system to balance advantages and disadvantages, skills, starting equipment, spells, weapon restrictions, fighting advantages and so on...
This I did calculating from a "naked" hero: Movement according to race (1D6), Attack dice 0, Defend dice 1, Mind + Body 10 points.

Then I made 16 balanced heroes to choose from, divided into 4 hero classes (Warrior, Scout, Adventurer, Sorcerer).
The 16 heroes get a set movement (between +3 and +6);
starting eqipment (typically short sword (+2 AD) and leather armor (+1 DD), increasing his AD/DD stats to the regular 2/2.
Some of the heroes have fighting advantages at the start, like +1 Defend die, or +1 Ranged attack and so on...
Then they get starting skills (all of them 2 from their respective decks - I plan to make cards for the skills)
and their spells (more than 3 for the Elf and 9 for the Wizard).

This hero creation system makes it possible to start with an ogre warrior or a skink shaman and such...

[knightkrawler]

For example, the original Dwarf's Disable Traps thingy is a skill,
as the Elf's ability to cast spells is.

A naked hero has 0 AD, 1 DD
The Barbarian has +1 AD and +1 DD throiugh fighting skills and starts with a short sword (+2 AD) and a loincloth (+0 DD),
making his stats: voilá... 3 AD, 2 DD

With the warrior class I did this, because I wanted those types of heroes to max out at 5 AD with a battle axe and weapons like it.
I think there should be a difference between the barbarian fighting and the elf fighting, other than their gold coins.

Now, my heroes maxing out through starting skills and equipment only have the following stats:

A typical barbarian:
6 AD (1+5 "Barbarian Greatsword")
5 DD (1+2 Chainmail +1 Helmet +1 Mystical Tribal Tattoo);
he won't wear plate armor or any projectile weapon for ideological reasons

A typical elfen ranger maxed out:
4 AD (1+3 "Elven Bow") in Ranged Attack,
3 AD (0+3 Longsword) in Melee and diagonal; still increasible through skills to be learned;
5 DD (1+1 Leather armor +1 Shield +1 Helmet +1 Heavy Cloak)
the elf won't wear any armor piece with +2 DD or more.

A dwarf maxed out:
4 AD (0+4 Battleaxe) in Melee
3 AD (0+3 Crossbow) in Ranged Attack
5 DD (1+3 "Dwarven Chainmail" [no movement restriction] +1 Helmet)

A wizard maxed out:
2 AD (0+2 Wizard's Staff) in melee and diagonal
1 AD (0+1 "Sling") in Ranged Attack
4 DD (1+1 Heavy Cloak +1 Bracers +1 "Crystal Armor" [which doubles DD against magical attacks)