Chests in corridors

[The Admiral]

Has there been any official clarification over what to do with these as treasure searches in corridors are not allowed?

[wallydubbs]

I the unusual circumstances such as The Dwarven Forge (Keller's Keep, Quest 4) or The Cold Halls (Return of the Witch Lord, Quest 2) i just count these chests as a bonus. The "Corridor" is so small it's practically a closet.
Though no official consensus has been posted I settle this with a single search on the chest, no treasure cards drawn.

I wouldn't consider these a room but nor would I call it a corridor, more like a closet. Lol

[HispaZargon]

Well, as wallydubbs points it is a really unusual case, however I think the NA questbooks are self-explaining in those cases. If you read the quest notes they consider such place as a SPECIAL ROOM, so... I guess that means it IS a room from rules point of view, therefore all regular rules for rooms should apply there, including the Searching for Treasure ones, if not otherwise indicated, isn't it?

[Kurgan]

Agreed, it's simple: these corridors with chests are treated as rooms, hence Treasure searches are allowed there like any other room.

The original edition of HeroQuest (1989) allowed Treasure searches in corridors so it wasn't even a question there (a vestige of this are the debris artwork like the boot printed on the corridor tiles... which you'll notice have been mostly scrubbed from the remake board). But see above for the other editions.

[Bareheaded Warrior]

The original edition of HeroQuest (1989) allowed Treasure searches in corridors so it wasn't even a question there.

True but not relevant, both first and second edition of EA, chests are handled through moving next to them and opening them, the same way as doors, so treasure searches in passages being allowed or not isn't relevant.

The bit that I don't like about this in NA and beyond is that treating these "special" passageways as rooms is a way around this, but how are the players supposed to know that, obviously you can just tell them, but that seems a bit clunky. It certainly feels like an inherent flaw and a clumsy workaround but having backed themselves into a corner with this ruleset I too would be interested in any new official view but I doubt they'll be anything meaningful as that would probably involved a considerable modification, it might be easier to just reconfigure those quests and not put chests in corridors!

[Kurgan]

I personally thinking creating new rooms like this is a perfectly legitimate and creative thing in the spirit of the whole game. If it were a later expansion, surely they'd just include a new "room tile" and everyone would be happy. The point is they just wanted to make a one off room of a certain size in a certain spot, and as the fixed board didn't allow it, they made it happen anyway. This is similar to how Stephen Baker's Prophecy of Telor has a giant room without a tile. You just use your imagination, no need to modify the rules, it's assumed that each quest can change things up anyway, without needing special assets.

I don't find anywhere in the original rules where you have to walk up to a Treasure Chest to search or open it (nor any distinction between those two actions). Seems the act of searching itself finds whatever treasure is inside as long as you are in the same location. People simply confuse an old house rule with what it actually says. Unless of course you're playing the Japanese edition...

The age old discussion of course has that interesting speculation that perhaps at one time the game was intended to be played this way (walking up to chests) evidenced by the occasional practice of putting a trap tile right next to a chest (rather than using a furniture trap) which will only entrap those heroes foolish enough to role playing walking up to furniture (without first searching for traps). We see such an error appear also in the Frozen Horror, but the draft notes show that the design team in '92 was toying with the idea of allowing individual searches of each piece of furniture (it was abandoned before release, and we could speculate that while it would have made solo quests a bit more interesting, it would simply greatly the length of the game for only a slight increase in suspense as they didn't plan much for it beyond the first quest). That said, at GenCon we did play at a table that was using a rule like this (you got to search each piece of furniture and also search the "floor" of the room). The GM had an interesting system where you rolled dice to see if you got a wandering monster, artifact, or something else but I may be forgetting some of the precise details.

But to the larger point, there's no general rule about this with regard to chests (I know we have that wonderful thread about it, which I hope people who are interested will read) but individual quests are always able to introduce new scenarios and one-off situations. I hesitate to create entire rulesets based upon these "one and done" affairs. One exception to this (and I think this was an oversight on the part of the NA/remake designers, not so much the EU creators) was the no weapons rule, that comes up in one quest. The EU heroes have basic stats (not based upon weapons), but I suppose they probably figured the scenario won't have come up before this (the NA edition it can happen immediately when the Wizard throws away his dagger in the first combat, potentially... some players might reason that he simply can't fight anymore! but I digress). Some can't wait to revise the rules and one ambiguous situation or pet peeve might be the trigger for that, I suppose, but I don't think the game is broken because we found a treasure chest in a "corridor." As Zargon I'd just tell the heroes "treat this as a room" and problem solved (and if they did the same with the app, there too!).

[Kurgan]

Rather than start an entire new debate about it (too late, right?)... I'd simply conclude with this, the basis of HQ's rules is you take the general rules, and then you make exceptions to those rules with the cards and individual quests. Having to construct a larger (and constantly evolving) general ruleset based on individual quest notes would be a thankless task. While every group has the right to back-incorporate rules from later adventures (even later expansions) into earlier quests (whose designers never even thought about those rules), it's a fan mod at that point, not some kind of faithful adherence to the original intentions. Similarly the project of wanting to merge rulesets from across regions is a fun exercise (many having done it) but it will always be a highly subjective experience, with results varying with each fan who attempts it (and implemented at your table, that's perfectly fine).

Sometimes simplicity is better, in my humble opinion. So if we ask what was the most plausible likely intention behind this scenario, it seems very straightforward in this case. But we love to scrutinize stuff and argue our points, so I get it. HeroQuest encourages you to make it your own by its nature so something ambiguous or displeasing can be modified easily by the GM for their own purposes even if the next GM over will disagree.

PS: Just tested KK Q4 (Companion App v.1.82) and I was able to search for treasure (and find the noted reward) for Note F.

[Bareheaded Warrior]

I don't find anywhere in the original rules where you have to walk up to a Treasure Chest to search or open it (nor any distinction between those two actions). Seems the act of searching itself finds whatever treasure is inside as long as you are in the same location. People simply confuse an old house rule with what it actually says. Unless of course you're playing the Japanese edition...

We had a long multi-person conversation on the How Treasure chests work in the EU rules (LONG) topic, but the brief answer is that the Second Edition featured an "Introductory Ruleset" specifically intended as an easier way to introduce new players to the game that was designed to be used hand-in-hand with the new Second Edition introductory quest "The Trial". The Introductory ruleset does not include any form of searching and yet the introductory quest includes treasure chests with gold in. If searching for treasure in a room containing a treasure chest is the way in which you recover treasure from a chest, then why would you include treasure chests in a quest designed for use with a ruleset that doesn't include searching, so has no way to access the treasure?

That is a clear distinction under SE between "searching for treasure" action which is NOT allowed under introductory game rules and "opening chests" which IS allowed in introductory game rules.

And yes, too late

The official answer to the OP's question is that no official clarification is required as these chests are no located in corridors they are located in rooms, that just look like they are corridors. No issue. I was just expressing my dissatisfaction with that approach from a hero player POV, rather than an EWP, as if it looks like a corridor, why would I ever decide to search for treasure when I know that you can only do that in a room.

I'd simply conclude with this, the basis of HQ's rules is you take the general rules, and then you make exceptions to those rules with the cards and individual quests. Having to construct a larger (and constantly evolving) general ruleset based on individual quest notes would be a thankless task. While every group has the right to back-incorporate rules from later adventures (even later expansions) into earlier quests (whose designers never even thought about those rules), it's a fan mod at that point, not some kind of faithful adherence to the original intentions.

You are failing to make the distinction between quest (or quest book) specific exceptions and general "rule clarifications" published in a quest (or quest book), which by their very nature are intended to be an amendment (or "clarification") to the general rule. Unfortunately you are not alone in this as some of the quest designers also seemed to have forgotten to make this distinction clear also!

[Kurgan]

When you put aside the Treasure Deck (as you're meant to do in 2nd EU rules for the Trial only) then a search for treasure has two outcomes: 1) nothing. 2) whatever the note says.

That struck me as pretty straightforward, and again we're talking about a one-off, "special rules for this quest" kind of thing. The Japanese edition has three stages of magic development within the early stages of its campaign as well. Very cool stuff.

The problem with introducing later rule clarifications in supplemental releases continues to this day, which is that you then are asking the GM to gather together all these notes and plan things out and you're asking the designers to maintain this jury rigged structure where new additions have to account for (but also change) previous installments. Instead I would just treat each expansion as its own thing and not apply note rules from one quest to the next unless the same book instructs me to do so. The coolness of whatever my inspiration is could lead me to take something invented in 2023 and project it into a quest from 1989 (or change a modern rule in favor of something invented thirty years ago in a secondary work) but that's every GMs prerogative.

So now you have people wondering how balanced the game system quests will be if the Elf is using the "Elf Spells" or how the Druid and other heroes will fair in those adventures. The good thing of course is that Zargon already decides whether to allow these new rules into other spaces where they weren't originally intended and he gets to decide how they work (if they work at all). The Companion App, not exactly the debate ender when it comes to rules as it follows them imperfectly, already does this to a degree, but your own mileage may vary (and enough is left to the honor system that an individual group has plenty of wiggle room... key example, Sir Ragnar is not allowed to attack, but what if you decide that by handing him a weapon he can? using the App you can still arrange for combat between him and monsters!).

The official answer to the OP's question is that no official clarification is required as these chests are no located in corridors they are located in rooms, that just look like they are corridors. No issue. I was just expressing my dissatisfaction with that approach from a hero player POV, rather than an EWP, as if it looks like a corridor, why would I ever decide to search for treasure when I know that you can only do that in a room.

Rather than concluding the Quest is in error in this case and needs to be rewritten, possibly with a revision to all the searching rules (be my guest), I'd say that the official answer is pretty plain and simple: that corridor is actually a room and functions like one. And I don't even need to go on X or discord and ask for a direct quote from AH to know that.

Zargon's task is very simple:

(points at "corridor")
"this is actually a room"

He is the one who clarifies the rule, as the game is in progress, as he always does. The game doesn't grind to a halt while everyone jumps on social media looking for answers. It doesn't get tossed into the trash because it's "broken." At least it wouldn't have to, but some are too quick to lay aside Zargon's role in favor of appeals to authority and popularity. I for one wouldn't be too happy if my group's game time were constantly being interrupted by such "look ups." When we return to the table next week I may have some introductory note "I did some more research and actually I think we should try playing it this way now..." and that's that.

Speaking of issues.. an unmarked treasure chest IS an error (we can prove this by reference to previous editions where it's clear the note was not transferred, even without looking at drafts), but as many have noted, it's easily solved by simply using the basic rules. No treasure note means you draw a card. AH even admitted this (before they went ahead and corrected all the unmarked chests in MOTM). There was already a work around before any of these designers spoke up, but those who wish to hold their breath until an "official clarification" comes through, they now have their answer.

[The Admiral]

It's not a problem, as I will just say you are allowed to search this corridor for treasure because it has a chest in it. I just wondered if there had been an official response, and it would appear not. I don't need to go down the path of saying this corridor is a room/closet/vestibule etc..