Elixir of Life: Vague, but useful

[Kurgan]

I realize that if you just go by what the rules state, as the Elixir only exists in the NA edition as an artifact (in the EU rules, it behaves totally differently, as a one-off in the notes of the Dark Company from Advanced Quest/Master Edition) it is a bit vague. The only rules about its use are on the card itself, and more than one can be found throughout the run of the "official" quest books under the NA (or remake) rules.

I am trying to discern the most likely interpretation that the designers intended, but admitting it is vague, and so I would propose something that retains that (as opposed to jettisoning it, as some would, because they just don't like it) based on the text we have, before adding homebrew tweaks and additions.

The Elixir brings a dead hero back to life with all body and mind points restored and can only be used once. Boom. Simple right? But wait...

When it brings a dead hero back to life... under what circumstances?

A minimalist interpretation could be to say that normally a hero "escapes death" by using an unused healing spell/scroll (if hasn't performed an action already) or any type of potion that heals BP... but if he can't do that and just dies... later on in the same quest, he can simply be brought back to life by the one who has the Elixir and he's back until he dies again, etc. [and I also realize that the "escapes death" thing is controversial with some fans, they either don't like it and don't want it to be in the game at all--similar to the EU rules, or else they insist that using a healing spell to save yourself from death should rarely happen because if it's Zargon's turn the hero should never be able to do any actions--though I disagree and consider they were probably intending this to be an exception to that rule, vs. a potion that can be used anytime not just on the hero player's turn].

People have tried to come up with additional house rules, like saying that the Elixir user has to travel to the exact square where their comrade's "body fell" and that they can't use it under certain circumstances (like if the hero died by falling into a "bottomless" pit or was trapped "forever" inside solid rock**).

A maximalist interpretation would be that, regardless of how or even when the hero died, the elixir just miraculously brings them back, presumably on a nearby square to the Elixir user.

Would they have basic starting gear? No reason to think so. Their gear has been lost, either to monsters (or is being held by the heroes, perhaps being already sold off or lost some other way). This is not a new hero joining the party, it's the old hero, restored magically to life. So they would have the same abilities as an "unarmed" hero (see Legacy of the Orc Warlord), 1 attack die, 2 defend dice, full body and mind points. If they are a magic user, would they have access to all their starting spells? I would think so, unless they had expended some of them already in the quest prior to their death (what about if they had died many quests ago? then just remember as best you can). Now if you recall the spells strictly as objects that could get more complicated. If the Wizard dies, another hero can normally claim his gear yes, but he doesn't also claim his spells (and he couldn't use them if he did). And yet the Spells are treated like objects that can be stolen and collected in Legacy of the Orc Warlord). Depending upon Zargon's generosity, I would say either they have all their spells or they have only the ones they had left from before as best anyone remembers.

Is there a loophole here? Well you can't attack your fellow heroes (unless they are under evil influence, for example the Command spell, or as a Werewolf), so no "fragging" to try to someone get extra stuff (note that they don't spawn with new gear either, so no gold loophole).

How would I handle it?

I'm thinking the maximalist interpretation. To me the Elixir of Life is such a rare type of mulligan artifact, that I would let the heroes use it for all it is worth. Would I use it as a regular healing potion? Probably not.* If the hero was about to die in a room with monsters and he had the elixir with him, could he use it to "escape death"? I would tend to say yes, otherwise he dies alone and the monsters claim it... and it's gone. I guess it would still work because Zargon places the Elixir of Life as a special treasure early in the NEXT quest, which means the surviving heroes could find it, and then use it to restore the previously "lost" hero. I guess the latter is more challenging, so a Zargon like me might do it that way to force the heroes to be more careful, or give them another goal to accomplish. Would I force them to re-travel through the old quest (with monsters restored?) to retrieve the body of their fallen comrade? See previously (where body can't be retrieved). To enhance the setting, I might come up with some excuse as to how they got the body back (other than pure magic... teleportation exists in HQ already, so why not that?)... Mentor's scouts were able to bring the body back or something else happened off camera. An traveling ogre mercenary was found with the body in town that he planned to have as his evening meal, but the townsfolk were able to bribe him to get it back to a safe place, etc.

* Then again there's that quest in Kellar's Keep where the bad guy can kill a hero permanently by reducing his mind points to zero (Phoenix tweaked this to instead make the hero just go unconscious for the quest similar to how it worked in ROTWL, but this was NOT the original way the NA edition handled it)... where it says "unless they have the Elixir of Life," so at least in this case the Elixir saves the hero from dying this way (it doesn't say the other heroes have to find him and use the Elixir necessarily to bring him back). Recall that zero mind point status changes in EQP/BQP (using the "goes into shock" rule).

But let's say you've already replaced the fallen Barbarian with a new one. You already have four heroes! Isn't that somehow against the rules, to have more heroes? I've already discussed in many other posts how having more than four heroes does NOT break the game (especially on the harder quests, but certainly not in those where mercenaries are already taken into consideration, a hero adds a trivial number of body points compared to what you can get from hiring men-at-arms). I would treat it more like an NPC.

Chances are the dead hero probably belonged to one of the players already in the game, so they now have two heroes. There is more than one of each hero type anyway (if you own the Mythic tier, but even if you own Mage of the Mirror and the Frozen Horror, and someday if they release the unpublished Wizard and Dwarf quest packs) you have enough. Otherwise you could use the Chaos Warlock/Dread Sorcerer or any other figure to represent the formerly dead hero. This character would follow the hero who formerly controlled him (let's say) or the one who matches his character type. So the Wizard would control two Wizards, or whatever. I would let him follow the party around and do whatever for the rest of that quest.

But when the NEW quest begins, I'd make the players choose. Which hero would you want to take along? Essentially I'd be making them retire the character, but not permanently, because let's say the main Barbarian dies again. Maybe they can't get him back so easily. Guess what? The old Barbarian is still alive, he comes out of retirement to fill the space in the party. So I think it would work simply, and sort of "make sense" in the logic of the story.

So no letting everyone die, somehow finding tons of Elixirs, and somehow having an "army" of heroes all at once. At best you'd have one, maybe two (in a blue moon) extra heroes, as a bonus for that quest (a reward for saving the elixir until the moment you needed it).

Any other opinions?

The way the Japanese edition handles death and revival of characters is a bit different, so that could be a whole 'nother discussion.

** actually there's a way around this too! If you have to travel to the exact spot to retrieve the body then ANY hero who has the Elixir in hand could use Pass Through Rock or the Elven Cloak of Passage to move THROUGH the rock where the dead body was, use the Elixir and then move to safety with their remaining squares of movement. Remember, the card does NOT say that using the Elixir of Life costs an action! Also the Companion App is no help, because it uses the honor system for this (and many other artifacts) and movement is a bit wonky anyway (you can keep your finger on the cursor to move into and out of rock with impunity but if you stop moving even if you had squares left and intended to move some more, it instantly kills you with no chance to undo it!).

[Count Mohawk]

My understanding of the rules suggests that the Elixir of Life is valuable for one main reasons:
The Elixir can be used to revive another Hero after-the-fact, potentially well after they have died.
This is the important part of the Elixir's power. Normal healing potions and spells can be used to save yourself if you get reduced to 0 Body Points, but the base rules as written explicitly prevent you from using your potions on other Heroes at the moment of their death. This means that if the monsters gang up on one single Hero, run them out of healing supplies and finish them off before someone else can get there, you've still got an out, whereas if all you have are regular healing potions, it'll be too late.
As a side note, a lot of people like to play house rules which permit "just-in-time" usage of potions and spells on adjacent Heroes, which does cheapen the value of the Elixir somewhat, but having a "get-out-of-death-free" card on hand is still going to be a very nice safety net, especially if you run into "instant-death" traps like falling into one of those bottomless ice chasms in the Frozen Horror quests.

Speaking of house rules, I play with one other minor "tweak", namely:
If a Hero dies in a place where the monsters could "loot" his body and then gets Elixir'd back to life in the same Quest, the resurrected Hero gets to keep his stuff.
I suggest this rule mostly to incentivize actually resurrecting the dead hero, because it'd be a real "feels-bad" moment if you die, get the rare opportunity to come back, but all your stuff is gone... I don't think I'd bother otherwise; might as well just wait for the Quest to end and write up a new character at that point!

[Kurgan]

With the magic user I'm thinking if they died in the same quest, their spells would be in the same state as when they died, but if they died many quests ago, I'd probably just give them back their used up spells. But that's me.

I'm also imagining a scenario where the heroes are facing their ultimate foe.. who is about to destroy them and suddenly "Miss me yet?" and in strides one of the heroes who died early in the campaign. Toss him a weapon and suddenly the odds are looking better...

If played right it could really be a show-stopper!

[wallydubbs]

I am trying to discern the most likely interpretation that the designers intended, but admitting it is vague...

The Elixir brings a dead hero back to life with all body and mind points restored and can only be used once. Boom. Simple right? But wait... under what circumstances?

A minimalist interpretation could be to say that normally a hero "escapes death" by using an unused healing spell/scroll (if hasn't performed an action already) or any type of potion that heals BP... but if he can't do that and just dies... later on in the same quest, he can simply be brought back to life by the one who has the Elixir and he's back until he dies again, etc.

People have tried to come up with additional house rules, like saying that the Elixir user has to travel to the exact square where their comrade's "body fell" and that they can't use it under certain circumstances (like if the hero died by falling into a "bottomless" pit or was trapped "forever" inside solid rock**).

A maximalist interpretation would be that, regardless of how or even when the hero died, the elixir just miraculously brings them back, presumably on a nearby square to the Elixir user.

Would they have basic starting gear? No reason to think so. Their gear has been lost, either to monsters (or is being held by the heroes, perhaps being already sold off or lost some other way). This is not a new hero joining the party, it's the old hero, restored magically to life. So they would have the same abilities as an "unarmed" hero (see Legacy of the Orc Warlord), 1 attack die, 2 defend dice, full body and mind points. If they are a magic user, would they have access to all their starting spells? I would think so, unless they had expended some of them already in the quest prior to their death (what about if they had died many quests ago?

Is there a loophole here?

How would I handle it?

I'm thinking the maximalist interpretation. To me the Elixir of Life is such a rare type of mulligan artifact, that I would let the heroes use it for all it is worth. Would I use it as a regular healing potion? Probably not.* If the hero was about to die in a room with monsters and he had the elixir with him, could he use it to "escape death"? I would tend to say yes, otherwise he dies alone and the monsters claim it...
But let's say you've already replaced the fallen Barbarian with a new one. You already have four heroes! Isn't that somehow against the rules, to have more heroes?


So no letting everyone die, somehow finding tons of Elixirs, and somehow having an "army" of heroes all at once. At best you'd have one, maybe two (in a blue moon) extra heroes, as a bonus for that quest (a reward for saving the elixir until the moment you needed it).

Any other opinions?

Let's not complicate things, add a bit of realism and have fun.

I'm definitely a minimalist by comparison. I treat the Elixir of Life as just another healing potion with the added component of restoring full mind points too and can be administered by another hero onto a dead hero. Whereas a hero can save himself from death is he has a regular potion handy. If he DOES NOT, another hero holding the Elixir of Life may bring him back, and I must emphasize this: if the body is retrievable!

If a hero were trapped in stone; fallen into a bottomless pit or; killed by an ungodly number of monsters, where the remaining heroes must flee to complete the quest (Halls of Dwarven Kings).

As much as I feel once the heroes complete a quest, as in all monsters defeated and rooms checked, they'd probably bring the body of their fallen comrade back with them to bury, cremate or send down the river with the weapons of his fallen enemies (Farewell Boromir). We don't know how much time has elapsed between quests, but I'm sure there should be some time limit on when it can be used before the body decays; once rigor mortis sets in and the hero's throat muscles are unable to constrict, drinking to elixir is no longer an option. I'd say it needs to be administered to a fallen hero just hours after death, much like in normal times when rushed to the hospital your heart can be jump-started or brought back with CPR. There is a point of finality when a person can no longer be brought back. I feel the same should apply here.
Of course, none of this is in the card text, so I guess a maximalist Zargon could play it whichever way they want. But I wouldn't want to complicate matters and just go with the simplest use.

In regards to armor? For me, when a hero dies I'll use the equipment token to mark where he fell. His weapons and armor CAN be picked up or retrieved by either another hero or a monster. Much like the Ice Gremlin from Frozen Horror, if a monster runs out of sight the equipment is gone.

Adding a 5th hero though, wouldn't be such a terrible idea for the more difficult quests, like Frozen Horror and Mage of the Mirror.

[Markus Darwath]

Personally, I use the assumption that you have to have the body, and be adjacent to it (and not under threat by a monster) to use the elixir. Whether or not the raised hero has their gear depends on whether they were alone when they went down. If it took more than a full round of turns to gain line of sight on the fallen hero then the body would be looted. Spells could be treated the same as physical gear under the premise the prolonged unconsciousness caused temporary magical amnesia (the spell card system seems to mimic a Vancian memorization/forget on casting magic system).

[Bareheaded Warrior]

Another aspect to consider in this discussion is that the Elixir of Life, whilst generally considered an NA artefact, was present in the EA edition in the Dark Company described as "a life-giving elixir" with the following instructions

If he administers it to a dead character player, it will bring him back to life. The revived character can be placed anywhere in the room and will have just one Body point.

Granted this is filled with the usual inconsistencies (we've had some really exciting and tense games, but not yet have we had a PLAYER drop dead and need to be restored by an elixir, I presume that is meant to be a reference to a character) but I infer from the use of the phase 'administers it to a dead character' that the dead character (technically their corpse) needs to be present in the same room (or passageway presumably) as the character doing the administering...

[Kurgan]

Yeah heroes were called "player characters" in the EU rules of play, if I recall correctly. It's one of those things that gets forgotten when you switch regional editions (like referring to corridors as "passages" or artifacts as "quest treasures," etc).

[Bareheaded Warrior]

My comment was that the text refers to character player rather than player character, so not a case of different terminology between editions but a case of the text being incorrect.

[The Admiral]

If you have it on you when death comes, then you take it like a normal potion. Otherwise we mark the location of the deceased with a skull token, and they may be brought back by a Hero with an Elixir moving adjacent before the quest ends. If the body is inaccessible, tough. If the Hero has had his stuff nicked, tough, and as the Count pointed out, there is probably no point to waste such a valuable item when you get a free new Hero anyway.

[Bareheaded Warrior]

A life-giving elixir…if he administers it to a dead player character, it will bring him back to life. The revived character can be placed anywhere in the room and will have just one Body point.

Note: I modified this slightly (italics) to correct the wording error.

Elixir of Life
This small bottle of pearly liquid will bring a Hero back to life, restoring all of his Body and Mind Points. This potion can only be used once.

If you have it on you when death comes, then you take it like a normal potion.
Otherwise we mark the location of the deceased with a skull token, and they may be brought back by a Hero with an Elixir moving adjacent before the quest ends.
If the body is inaccessible, tough. If the Hero has had his stuff nicked, tough,
and as the Count pointed out, there is probably no point to waste such a valuable item when you get a free new Hero anyway.

It specifically mentions it being administered to a dead hero from this I would take that it cannot be administered BY a dead hero, but must be administered by a living hero, who has the item, so I wouldn’t play it as per your first sentence.

Marking the location of a dead hero is probably good practice in general, either the specific square (my preference) or at least the room or passageway, otherwise you would struggle to enforce the EA rules around dead heroes and equipment (NA rules have a remote automatic pick up by a hero in the same room or corridor, or they just disappear) so I would agree with marking the location of a dead hero with a skull token, and the item being administered by a living hero with the item in an adjacent square during the Quest.

Based on that if the body was lost, died whilst attempting to jump a bottomless chasm, or similar then no body no restore – so I agree with you there too.

Open question here around whether it would count as an action but it probably doesn’t really matter (generally using potions doesn’t count as an action, and although this does mention potion it doesn’t work as a potion because you can’t take it yourself. Also the "giving items" rule in official heroquest doesn’t count as an action and you are kind of passing it to the hero, in a way, so maybe not an action, although I personally count "giving items" as an action for the giver so to keep it consistent I would consider this an action)

Any treasure and equipment would either have been lost or claimed by another hero, so the revived hero would I assume be lacking in treasure and equipment, but other heroes could give items if they wish (or not) so I agree here too.

Open question on whether it should restore BP to 1 or by 1, restore BP and MP to 1 or by 1, or fully restore both?

I don’t agree with the no point in wasting such a valuable item when you get a free new Hero anyway, the item has only one function, how can using it for that function be a waste when there is literally no other function that it can be used for?