Special Heroes playing the Game System (spoilers)

[Kurgan]

Some of the 14 Game System quests contain some interesting rules (that's why we love it!). This campaign was not originally designed for the new heroes, obviously, but for the classic four (Barbarian, Dwarf, Elf, Wizard). And yet via the free (digital download) HeroQuest Companion App, Hasbro/Avalon Hill has indicated they intend for these Heroes to be usable in these adventures as well.

So how would you adapt the new heroes to these? (Here I'm talking strictly about the NA based campaign that the remake uses)


Spoilers follow...


I'm thinking of Q6, where ALL your equipment is taken away. Armor, weapons, potions AND Spells. Everyone is reduced to one combat die for attack and two for defense (and their two red dice for movement). There may be some debate over whether Artifacts count (not all of them are Armor/Weapons/Potions) but in the strict chronology you wouldn't have any of those yet except the Talisman of Lore which won't affect anything. But here I'd assume Fortune's Longsword is a weapon, Borin's Armor is armor, even a Toolkit is equipment, so all those would be taken.

Here the spells are treated like physical objects or devices, rather than innate abilities, like books of magic or something (a more durable version of the disposable spell scrolls that are found later, perhaps requiring the special innate skill in order to use them... while the Spell Scrolls are the "dumbed down for anyone" version).

Bard, Warlock and Druid would lose their spells too. The conditions under which these spells can be "regained" would be negated since they don't have the spell cards to begin with (so no Bard getting his Inspiring Tale just because someone rolled two white shields, no Warlock getting a spell just because she killed a monster, etc).

The Guardian Knight would lose his equipment (including his shield) but what about his skills? These are not "spells" are they? Two of them require his Shield so couldn't be used, but his "Knight's Challenge" over a Wandering Monster would still be usable, would it not?

The Rogue Heir of Elethorn would lose his Bandolier (seeing it as both a Toolkit which is equipment and as a dagger which is a weapon). But his other skills would remain. Ambidextrous requires certain weapons to use so it would not be usable. But the ability to pass through monsters (Combat mobility) would remain. He would also still theoretically be able to use "Opportunistic Striker" on a monster adjacent to another hero, even without any gear or items.



Can anyone think of other instances where the New Heroes would require some additional thought or balancing? I guess we could run through KK and ROTWL as well (or really ANY quests written before 2020). No special rules are given for using the new heroes* other than kind of a hidden assumption (as in the Companion App) that you'd always have a party of FOUR heroes, so any new ones would be substituting for one of the classic four, meaning if any quest ever required that specific hero, another would be taking his place.


* The sole exception being the Bard, who is a one-time substitute when a hero dies in the "Spirit Queen's Torment" pack. But keep in mind that while the bonus Heroes are included in the Companion App, the special Mythic quest books (the aforementioned Spirit Queen's Torment, Prophecy of Telor and Crypt of Perpetual Darkness) are not (as of this writing).

[wallydubbs]

I can think of East Gate in Keller's Keep where the final door requires mind points to open. The Dwarf is generally given a pass to roll 1 red dice to open that door for mind points.
Earlier in this quest the heroes face a mind-point consuming mster (can't remember his name without looking it up), there's always the what-if scenario that all these other heroes are brought down to 1MP and unable to open the door... Ya know if you're playing without the Dwarf.

The only other one is Halls of the Dead in Return of the Witch Lord... In the office chance you're not playing with the Barbarian and Elf, which heroes will the Witch Lord have chained up in the central room?

[Kurgan]

Yeah being unable to open a door would then require Genie or Pixie spells to open doors (Pass Through Rock just being a one time pass for that character alone). Mind points get restored by potions but those have to be purchased between quests so if you don't have them... (Talisman of Lore only raises your max by one when you have it).

That makes me wonder, what if someone has the Talisman and they are reduced to 1 MP... would giving it up reduce them to zero (or they would just be unable to give it up if it means death? Or would they instantly go unconscious since the "shock" rules only kick in with EQP/BQP and the related Into the Northlands?

A good point about imprisoned heroes... I would want to substitute for the Barbarian whoever was the biggest "tank" type character. The Elf could be replaced by just about any of the new heroes since they each have a set of 3 spells (or I guess either of the two Hero Collection characters since they have 3 "skills"). You could try to get a character that is closest in "power" (like when substituting monsters) in terms of first body and then mind points too. It seems the way they did it was to have a castor type and a pure combat type be captured while a similar matched pair are free. If all heroes happen to be castor types, maybe it should be random?

[Bareheaded Warrior]

(Talisman of Lore only raises your max by one when you have it).
That makes me wonder, what if someone has the Talisman and they are reduced to 1 BP... would giving it up reduce them to zero (or they would just be unable to give it up if it means death? Or would they instantly go unconscious since the "shock" rules only kick in with EQP/BQP and the related Into the Northlands

I think you meant reduced to 1 MP rather than 1 BP but yes that is an important question, and it is that scenario that I was pointing out on your other topic Restoring Mind Points in Classic Hero Quest.

I think that the Talisman of Lore MUST ONLY +1 to your starting Mind Points NOT your current Mind Points

If you allow it to +1 to both your starting and current when it is put on then that leaves you with 2 options when it is removed

1) leave the +1 current MP in place which creates a loophole for the exploit where Heroes just pass the Talisman from Hero to Hero in a circle until all their Mind Points are restored, so we don't want that

2) If you rule that removing it drops your current MP by one, then as you point out above, a Hero with 1 MP remaining who takes off, or has the Talisman removed will instantly drop dead, which seems both unrealistic and undesirable.

So for me it MUST be starting MP +1 only

Which incidentally fits with the rule "clarifications" in one of the expansions - Frozen Horror - I think that mentions Talisman of Lore and similar, stating that MP granted by these type of artefacts CAN be lost, which is true whether they give you +1 to your current MP score or +1 to your starting MP score (which doesn't prevent the loss of current Mind Points)

[Bareheaded Warrior]

Also the points around GS Q6 are discussed here Lair of the Orc Warlord which may or may not shed some light!

[wallydubbs]

What if you're playing the campaign through with the Bard, Druid, Rogue and Warlock and you get to quest 7, the Lost Wizard... Who's going to wear Borin's Armor?
I suppose the same could be asked about the Wizard's Staff and Wizard's Cloak. The Warlock is given the same restrictions on weapons and equipment as the Wizard, but are any of these characters allowed to dawn the artifacts specifically tailored to the Wizard?

Or will the Chaos Warrior in Bastion of Chaos get double attacks on the Bard (with Orc's Bane)?

[HispaZargon]

Very good points for discussion, especially the use (or not) of Orc's Bane against the Bard!!

Well this kind of things should be freely solved by Zargon player I think.

About Quest #6 Halls of the Dead from ROTWL where heroes are captured, I tried months ago some tests with the App and if the party of Heroes is not the expected one (Barbarian, Dwarf, Wizard and Elf), the software decides who are the two Heroes starting in the Witch Lord room and who are starting in the cell. I did not detect nor remember any clear criterion for it, so I guess the app did the heroes selection randomly, but maybe that is something we could check again.

[Kurgan]

(Talisman of Lore only raises your max by one when you have it).
That makes me wonder, what if someone has the Talisman and they are reduced to 1 BP... would giving it up reduce them to zero (or they would just be unable to give it up if it means death? Or would they instantly go unconscious since the "shock" rules only kick in with EQP/BQP and the related Into the Northlands

I think you meant reduced to 1 MP rather than 1 BP but yes that is an important question, and it is that scenario that I was pointing out on your other topic Restoring Mind Points in Classic Hero Quest.
...

2) If you rule that removing it drops your current MP by one, then as you point out above, a Hero with 1 MP remaining who takes off, or has the Talisman removed will instantly drop dead, which seems both unrealistic and undesirable.

So for me it MUST be starting MP +1 only

Which incidentally fits with the rule "clarifications" in one of the expansions - Frozen Horror - I think that mentions Talisman of Lore and similar, stating that MP granted by these type of artefacts CAN be lost, which is true whether they give you +1 to your current MP score or +1 to your starting MP score (which doesn't prevent the loss of current Mind Points)

Oops, yes you understood me, I meant MP not BP in my post above! I was thinking of #2, so I would say the Hero is warned and would either be making a sacrifice to take it off or simply has to continue wearing it (reminds me of some spoiler parts of Prophecy of Telor, actually).

[Kurgan]

What if you're playing the campaign through with the Bard, Druid, Rogue and Warlock and you get to quest 7, the Lost Wizard... Who's going to wear Borin's Armor?

The Bard can wear it, as his "no metal armor" thing is just a suggested bonus, rather than a hard requirement (as it is for the others). If there was nobody to wear it then it would go into Mentor's keeping I suppose, until such time as a worthy hero emerges to wear it. The less poetic method would just be to leave it where it was found, and Zargon will re-introduce it as a "special treasure" early in some future quest when a hero who can wear it is present. The funniest way would be for a random NPC to drop in (say, a traveling Barbarian) with a, "I'll take that, thank you very much!" and march off into the shadows never to be seen again...

I suppose the same could be asked about the Wizard's Staff and Wizard's Cloak. The Warlock is given the same restrictions on weapons and equipment as the Wizard, but are any of these characters allowed to dawn the artifacts specifically tailored to the Wizard?

If neither the Warlock or Wizard are available, then it would fit the scenario above. At that point I might offer the Heroes an ordinary Staff and re-introduce the Cloak of Protection (tweaked from the EU edition to be wearable by any hero though maybe worth more in gold) as a consolation prize in that case.

Or will the Chaos Warrior in Bastion of Chaos get double attacks on the Bard (with Orc's Bane)?

That's up to Zargon. I like the idea, since he is an Orc after all (even if one that has turned to path of thee light!). The same could be said if Command is cast upon the Bard and the heroic bearer of the sword is forced to defend himself (though might want to pick a less lethal option if he can help it).