• Advertisement

Make a small donation to Ye Olde Inn!

Donate via Paypal

Every cent received goes toward Ye Olde Inn's maintenance and allows us to continue providing the best resources for HeroQuest and Fantasy Gaming fans.

Spell Clarifications - Tempest

Discuss the Rules of HeroQuest as set out by Milton Bradley Game Systems and Quest Packs.

Spell Clarifications - Tempest

Postby Bareheaded Warrior » Monday April 11th, 2022 9:34am

This spell creates a small whirlwind that envelops one monster/Hero of your choice. That monster/Hero will then miss its next turn.


Does the use of the phrase ‘miss its next turn’ as opposed to other spells like Sleep which state that the victim "cannot move, attack, or defend itself” imply there is a difference between the two spell effects, and if so what is the difference, can a victim of the tempest be attacked whilst under the influence?

If you are isolated by the localised whirlwind to such as extent that you cannot do anything on your next turn, move, attack, use ranged weapons, cast spells, drink potions etc which is implied by phrase ‘miss your next turn’, i.e., you cannot do anything that can usually be done on your turn, then can you be attacked / cast at / fired at by a ranged weapon or are you and your square completely isolated for that ‘round/turn’ and if so how long does it last, from the moment the caster casts the spell until the casters next turn?
:skull: = white skull, one "hit"
:blackshield: = black skull, one "hit"
:whiteshield: = shield, cancels out one "hit"

HQ Editions: 1989 Classic Edition (First Edition [FE] and Second Edition [SE]), 1990 NA Remake [NA], 2021 Reprint [21]

HQ Golden Rules Rule Fixes based on the Classic edition.

HQ Common Notification System to identify squares on the board


Rewards:
Wrote an article for the Blog.
User avatar
Bareheaded Warrior

Scout
Scout
 
Posts: 1077
Joined: Sunday December 8th, 2013 11:12am
Location: UK
Forum Language: British English
Hero:
Evil Sorcerer: Morcar
Usergroups:
Adventurers' Guild Group Member Champion Group Member

Advertisement

Make a small donation to Ye Olde Inn!

Donate via Paypal

Every cent received goes toward Ye Olde Inn's maintenance and allows us to continue providing the best resources for HeroQuest and Fantasy Gaming fans.

Re: Spell Clarifications - Tempest

Postby lestodante » Monday April 11th, 2022 3:29pm

it just mean the victim will not able to do anything on their turn and skip it. If attacked they can defend.


Rewards:
Wizard of Zargon Group MemberParticipated in four (4) Miniature Exchanges. Participated in four (4) Miniature Exchanges. Wrote an article for the Blog. Encountered a menacing Chaos Warlock!
User avatar
lestodante

Yeti
Yeti
 
Posts: 2752
Images: 5
Joined: Saturday January 7th, 2017 9:40am
Location: Italy
Forum Language: English (United States)
Hero:
Evil Sorcerer: Morcar
Usergroups:
Wizards of Zargon Group MemberScribes Group MemberChampion Group Member

Re: Spell Clarifications - Tempest

Postby wallydubbs » Thursday June 23rd, 2022 7:45am

I'm relatively certain that the monster cannot move, attack, or cast spells while under the effects of Tempest. Nor will an Ice Gremlin be able to steal an item.
The monster, however, may still defend against an attack, be it physical or magical.

The difference with Sleep is that Tempest only lasts for 1 turn while Sleep may or may not last longer, depending on the monster's mind point rolls. Sleep also negates the monster's ability to defend, which is why this spell is your best friend when up against a Giant Wolf.


Rewards:
Wizard of Zargon Group Member
wallydubbs

Crossbowman
Crossbowman
 
Posts: 1529
Joined: Thursday October 18th, 2018 7:15am
Forum Language: English (United States)
Evil Sorcerer: Zargon
Usergroups:
Wizards of Zargon Group MemberChampion Group Member

Re: Spell Clarifications - Tempest

Postby Kurgan » Thursday June 23rd, 2022 4:19pm

Sleep prevents you from defending yourself, potentially forever (if you never roll enough to escape before dying). Tempest's losing a turn is simply that... miss a turn. It doesn't prevent you from being able to defend.

Sleep is a VERY POWERFUL tool against big monsters with low mind points (and if you luck out, it can be effective on other types too). Tempest is useful too, but there is no avoiding it. I use it to keep a monster from moving in and attacking, basically.

And there are Chaos versions too to use against the Heroes/Mercs.


Rewards:
Destroyed a Zombie!
User avatar
Channeler
Kurgan

Witch Lord
Witch Lord
 
Posts: 6506
Images: 85
Joined: Saturday February 23rd, 2019 7:08pm
Location: https://discord.gg/2R9pEP4cty
Forum Language: English (United States)
Hero:
Evil Sorcerer: Zargon
Usergroups:
Scribes Group MemberAdventurers' Guild Group MemberChampion Group Member

Re: Spell Clarifications - Tempest

Postby Bareheaded Warrior » Saturday June 25th, 2022 4:29am

Almost certainly my own fault for not phrasing my initial question properly.

I get what the Tempest spell does on paper but if you think of HeroQuest (and many other games) as having a whole “turn” or “round” that consists of individual turns for each figure on the board in sequence, starting with the Heroes … Hero A, Hero B, and so on, then Zargon’s bit which comprises of an individual turn for each monster on the board, Monster A, Monster B and so on, then that whole or complete turn or round basically represents a period of time during which potentially a lot of things happen involving a lot of individuals all mixed together (but for the sake of our sanity and rule simplification we handle it through individual sequenced turns)

If you consider the Tempest spell and more specifically the “miss its next turn” piece in this context then it feels odd, out of place, to me compared to other similar spells in particular and the rules in general, almost like it has been dropped in from a simpler game with more of a “player 1 takes a turn, player 2 takes a turn, player 3 misses his turn, player 1 takes a turn and so on” kind of structure.

If, for example, on Zargon’s turn a Spell Casting Monster casts this spell on the Wizard, it takes effect immediately (presumably?) enveloping the Wizard in a personalised whirlwind rendering him unable to move, attack, cast spells, search, drink a potion? open a door? and yet he can still defend against my next monster when it attacks him, how can it attack him if he is surrounding by a whirlwind, how can he defend, why does he need to, could that monster if suitably armed attack the Wizard with a ranged weapon? What chance does a quarrel have of hitting someone surrounded by a whirlwind? If my crossbow attack results in him losing his last BP, can he use a healing potion or cast a spell to save himself, after all it isn’t his turn so why would he miss it? Once I as Zargon have finished my turn then can the Barbarian move next to the Wizard and pass him an item or a potion or have the Wizard pass him an item?
I’m not expecting an answer to all those questions, just indicating that the way it is written feels like it dates from early in the game’s development and wasn’t ever revisited to reflect other changes that made the game and turn sequence richer, like the interactions between figures, such as passing items and the special save rules introduced in the US version.

Perhaps something like the following would be an improvement in clarity.

“This spell creates a small whirlwind that envelops one figure of your choice. The spell takes effect immediately and lasts until the start of the caster’s next turn. Whilst under the effects of the spell the victim is completely isolated and cannot perform any actions or interactions, including movement, neither can they be affected by the actions or interactions of others.”


This also has the unintended but interesting option of a caster using this spell as a form of last-ditch defence, if surrounded by monsters and running out of BP, a caster could use this on themselves to isolate them for a turn in the hope that the other Heroes can clear the decks in the meantime and the same is true for a Dread caster.
:skull: = white skull, one "hit"
:blackshield: = black skull, one "hit"
:whiteshield: = shield, cancels out one "hit"

HQ Editions: 1989 Classic Edition (First Edition [FE] and Second Edition [SE]), 1990 NA Remake [NA], 2021 Reprint [21]

HQ Golden Rules Rule Fixes based on the Classic edition.

HQ Common Notification System to identify squares on the board


Rewards:
Wrote an article for the Blog.
User avatar
Bareheaded Warrior

Scout
Scout
 
Posts: 1077
Joined: Sunday December 8th, 2013 11:12am
Location: UK
Forum Language: British English
Hero:
Evil Sorcerer: Morcar
Usergroups:
Adventurers' Guild Group Member Champion Group Member

Re: Spell Clarifications - Tempest

Postby Kurgan » Sunday June 26th, 2022 10:31am

You can homebrew whatever you like of course, but a turn consists of moving and/or performing an action, which this excludes for one round, period. Drinking a potion can be done anytime, even on Zargon's turn (where you call that a "free action" or not, it doesn't use up an action and so can be done even when actions are prevented in situations like this). The "last minute save" can be done anytime as well (per other discussions of most likely implication of the rules) to prevent permanent death. A hero that is in sleep can still revive with a potion upon death when dealt a killing blow under the effects of the spell (and presumably as well do the same thing with an unused healing spell he might have since this is an exception to the rule about doing actions on your turn anyway).

Just because a character loses their turn, they don't also explicitly lose their ability to defend when attacked, as they would under a Sleep spell. It's explicitly different.

It's magic... maybe the magic stops certain activities but not others? You could reason it doesn't give you the freedom of movement to lunge at your opponent or fire off a bolt but it let's you put up your arm(s) in defense to a blow. It just does. Unless you as the GM decide to change it.

It wouldn't do any good to say it stops the hero from doing something until the turn of the person who goes right after him. "Lose a turn" means the next time it's his turn, he doesn't get to move or do an action, until the NEXT time it comes around to his turn. That's the intention anyway.

If you want it to be an ine-escapable (but temporary) version of Sleep, that would certainly make it a lot more powerful against monsters and when used against the heroes.


Rewards:
Destroyed a Zombie!
User avatar
Channeler
Kurgan

Witch Lord
Witch Lord
 
Posts: 6506
Images: 85
Joined: Saturday February 23rd, 2019 7:08pm
Location: https://discord.gg/2R9pEP4cty
Forum Language: English (United States)
Hero:
Evil Sorcerer: Zargon
Usergroups:
Scribes Group MemberAdventurers' Guild Group MemberChampion Group Member

Re: Spell Clarifications - Tempest

Postby Bareheaded Warrior » Thursday June 30th, 2022 12:02pm

I wasn't suggesting that because a character loses their turn they therefore lose their ability to defend, I was suggesting that if a character was isolated by a whirlwind then they couldn't be attacked and wouldn't therefore have any need to defend but I agree that is interpretive.
:skull: = white skull, one "hit"
:blackshield: = black skull, one "hit"
:whiteshield: = shield, cancels out one "hit"

HQ Editions: 1989 Classic Edition (First Edition [FE] and Second Edition [SE]), 1990 NA Remake [NA], 2021 Reprint [21]

HQ Golden Rules Rule Fixes based on the Classic edition.

HQ Common Notification System to identify squares on the board


Rewards:
Wrote an article for the Blog.
User avatar
Bareheaded Warrior

Scout
Scout
 
Posts: 1077
Joined: Sunday December 8th, 2013 11:12am
Location: UK
Forum Language: British English
Hero:
Evil Sorcerer: Morcar
Usergroups:
Adventurers' Guild Group Member Champion Group Member


Return to Official Rules

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot] and 0 guests