Hero Quest PC: rule differences

[iKarith]

Wait, so the CD-ROM literally contains like 3MB of data?

I don't know if the "abandonware" version out there is the same one that is in eXoDOS. If it is, eXo would like a version that isn't glitched I'm sure. I'm tapped for April so I won't be picking up the PC game this month. I think I'd actually prefer to play the Amiga version, I've heard it's the best of the bunch, but I haven't tried it. I know where to get it in WHDLoad format which is just about as close to the perfect format for anyone with an Amiga today, a modern "Amiga", or an emulator running on PC, Raspberry Pi, whatever. I know only a little about that and a bit less about DOSbox honestly … I just haven't put much into playing old DOS and Amiga games yet.

[Kurgan]

Yeah http://www.emucr.com has more up to date versions of Dosbox than on the official site.

Updated videos link. The Amiga intro is the same as the DOS VGA version (other than the music).

[iKarith]

Yeah http://www.emucr.com has more up to date versions of Dosbox than on the official site.

Define "up to date" is the problem. There are FOUR(!) major forks of DOSbox in addition to the official one, whose development has stopped/paused/halted and is not likely to continue.

In true DOS fashion, some of these games only work with a specific DOSbox. Others work with a couple. One or two games work ONLY with a specific binary version of DOSbox that is sometimes quite old and source code for that version does not exist anymore that we know of. Someone could try to compile the same version without those patches using the same toolchain and compare binary x86 code to suss out what was changed … but these few games are obscure and nobody's done that yet.

For eXoDOS, what works has been kept, and nobody's bothered to check if patches for "better" versions of DOSbox now supports those games properly. It's a little hard to do when you have FIVE HUNDRED SIXTY GIGABYTES of games, most of which came on a couple floppies. (Not to mention 346GB more of Windows 3.1 games!)

(There's a reason why I have 18.28 terabytes USED on my drives.)

[quote=Kurgan]Updated videos link. The Amiga intro is the same as the DOS VGA version (other than the music).[/quote]

Watched those last night on my own after we talked about the PC game … There's a video of MT-32 music out there for the PC game with three tracks, would have been sweet. I'm a fan of vintage computer music done well and I have to say that it's a shame HeroQuest is not a shining example of this. The game was ported to EVERYTHING, and when a studio took a scattershot approach to games like this, it often worked out that way. Even the Amiga sound, which in my opinion is the best (the MT-32 version sounds good too) under-utilizes the Amiga's sound hardware.

I'm well familiar with the limitations of the Atari ST's AY-3-8910 (under Yamaha's branding in the Atari), but I know it can do better than this. Consequently, the Spectrum version could sound like the Atari, same sound chip. MSX could too, although I don't think Gremlin ported this to the MSX. The PC soundtrack sounds a little poppy to my ear. Maybe that's just the limitations of DOSbox.

Illustration of the difference (courtesy Larry Bundy Jr.)

This monstrosity (warning: if not deaf, you will wish you were)
This is what it's SUPPOSED to sound like

The people behind videos like the second one are QUITE incensed that Larry made fun of the game being improperly emulated as if that's what it was actually intended to sound like. I think he still gets hate mail about it years later. I suspects he forwards all such correspondence to Peter Mollyneaux just because.

Still, the PC version is very poppy-sounding in the videos I saw. I tend to like the Amiga version best of all for sound. Video? Tossup. VGA looks great.


I was a little disappointed by the Atari's music. I know the AY-3-8910 and its limitations, but the chip was under-utilized. Frankly so was the SID in the Commodore 64—but Gremlin ported this game to absolutely everything, and whenever that was done

[Kurgan]

You do make some good points. It's also important to notice the difference between people who never played a game back in the day and bash it based solely on the experience of the emulated version.

I'm running a legit purchased original CD-Rom, but I'm running it through a dosbox fork on windows 10. But you don't see me bashing it, only wishing it had done more to take advantage of the format.

Part of me wishes I had spent my money on the Legacy of Sorasil game instead of this one... and run it on an Amiga emulator. It's more unique but the trouble is its much more rare and expensive, and at least I did have a fond memory of "discovering" the dos game many years back and testing it out (though I'd much rather be playing the real board game with friends). Its a curiosity and a collector's item. The best thing is that it gave me an idea of how to manage the "switch two and one handed weapons" thing. It also reminded me the variety of rules among the EU editions. The musical intro was kind of neat too, in a way. Back in the day I'm sure it was a real novelty to see a fully functional board game conversion apart from the regulars like chess, poker, solitaire, checkers and monopoly.

[lestodante]

This monstrosity (warning: if not deaf, you will wish you were)

I guess the sound is pitched and time stretched (also the title image is) to avoid youtube to remove the video because of copyrighted content.

[iKarith]

This monstrosity (warning: if not deaf, you will wish you were)

I guess the sound is pitched and time stretched (also the title image is) to avoid youtube to remove the video because of copyrighted content.

Oh no, that was NOT intentional. It's just that the game does a few things that dosbox doesn't emulate properly without a couple of tweaks. It's fairly infamous after Larry Bundy did his video on Top 5 Hidden Pi**ed Off Programmer Rants (UK Edition) (language warning) which featured the PC game. He used the music from the Amiga game because, as he put it, the PC version sounded like someone trying to strangle an ice cream van. He then takes a jab at the PC Master Race, on behalf of all Amiga fans, and moves on.

PCMR folks did not take this slight lying down and made much hay over the fact that if he knew how to set up dosbox to get his gameplay footage, he'd have found the music quite a bit better than the Amiga version. (It isn't … but it's not as bad as that first video…)

The first time I heard Larry describe that as trying to strangle an ice cream van and started playing it, I was mid-sip. Carbonated beverages in your nose is something best avoided.

[Kurgan]

With all the homebrew games and modding scene out there, here is another possible project (not a small one!), to reprogram (or re-create as the case may be, using the original graphics and sound) the HQ game to reflect the actual board game rules... just throwing that out there to anyone with the skills or inclination. Just think of it, you could add features like online play, or make Zargon controllable, put in more accurate dice visuals, etc.

Lots of people have started from scratch to create their own brand new video game version of HQ, and that is also cool of course, but this would be along the lines of the many nostalgic fan tribute games people have created for other retro-old school games (granted, platformers and fighting games are more fodder for this due to the ease of create engines like mugen). So there's your inspiration, whoever you may be.

[Kurgan]

Something I never really recognized before is that the quest layouts are somewhat different from the actual board game.

[Kurgan]

More alternate quest layouts found! Looks like this is a source of alternate quest layouts, but you will have to spend many hours playing through the quests to find them unless someone else has already laid them out!

Revisited Quest 2 from the PC (DOS) version of "The Rescue of Sir Ragnar." It has only 13 (including 1 Fimir) monsters instead of 20 (including 1 Fimir) like the NA physical edition making it quite a bit easier, in addition to all the ways that the PC version is easier than the original.

Rangar is interesting... on the overhead map he has the same face as the Elf, but he has his own unique character portrait. He appears like a knight with long hair stripped of his armor. He can't search for anything and has no inventory. You can do damage to him with attack spells and he can be healed, but he can never go over a maximum of 2 BP. He has 6 MP! He also rolls the equivalent of 2 movement dice (the PC game uses a "coin" for movement but he can get up to 12 squares of movement on a "roll").

The layout is different than the board game version so I imagine the other quests are as well. The PC game covers the 14 GS quests (based on the EU 1st edition with the Maze instead of the Trial) and ROTWL (10 additional quests). So it would take awhile to replay these and post the layouts.

In this quest the first chest you encounter is unmarked (draw a Treasure card) and the second one contains 100 gold coins and a Potion of Healing (4 BP).

Edit: The Maze appears to be the same (at least the same as the version posted at Phoenix's page).

[HispaZargon]

Quite interesting, I always thoughtthe maps where the same as Uk version of the board game. So interesting the stats and graphics for Sir Ragnar too, although as you know, his movement may should be only 1 dice sincehe is supposed to be a so tired prisoner.