Restoring Mind Points in Classic Hero Quest

[Kurgan]

It's not directly stated, but I assumed the only real difference between playing the quests "as a series" in ATOH and not, is that you can't shop for equipment between quests or change your spell groups (meaning your body and mind points are restored to maximum) while otherwise you can do those things. So your Body and Mind points are still restored between quests. The "big healing potions" aren't to do the job of the between quest healing, just a compensation for not being able to buy things (even though under EU rules there's no buying of potions as under NA rules).

You could try to say that since it doesn't say "mind points are restored between quests" in that very section, then they aren't. I would argue that since it doesn't say mind points are NOT restored between quests in a series, that they still are restored, because the EU rules don't provide any other way to do it at that point and we know that mind points are normally restored between quests (as it says elsewhere in the same book). If this gets remade I think that would be a nice place to put a clarification of course.

The remake's idea of restoring mind points (via "Into the Northlands" supplement to the Frozen Horror) is a simple solution of course to bringing characters out of "shock" state and conforms to one simple reading of the vintage NA rules on those points.

[Bareheaded Warrior]

I agree, if there isn't a directly stated 'special exception' in the Quest Book then you default to the 'standard' rules, and in this instance it isn't directly stated in the Quest Book, so standard rules would apply, you get your Body & Mind Points fully restored 'between quests'. I only raised it as others have asked the question previously about whether the Potions of Healing (or Potions of Rejuvenation in my world) are supposed to substitute for the Body Point restoration, in which case what happens to Mind Points, but I agree, I don't think that was the intention, and if it was then it should have been stated clearly.

Minor point, but on your original post, The Talisman of Lore, Elven Bracers and Amulet of the North, I would query whether those really 'restore Mind Points' or boost your starting Mind Points?

[Kurgan]

They do boost your starting maximum, but in theory you could give the Artifact to someone mid-quest and their Mind Points would increase by wearing the Artifact (and if they ever lost the artifact or gave it away they would lose the bonus). I believe the quest book(s) EQP/BQP (not sure about the EU packs) do mention this very example, but I'd have to read it over again to get the exact wording.

The designer draft notes indicate that all of the "hero named" quest pack expansions were originally intended to have an artifact for each of the four heroes that gave them 2 body points and 1 mind point increase from wearing it, but we never got the Dwarf and Wizard packs (so the equivalents for those heroes are missing), and in the Elf pack they forgot to give the Elven Bracers at all! (it was probably meant to either be given as a reward between quests or even more likely, in one of the unmarked chests later on, though the notes seem to indicate they just completely forgot).

[Bareheaded Warrior]

It may just be me missing a subtle point, not for the first time, but don't those artefacts, increase your Starting Mind Points ONLY and NOT your Current Mind Points (and the equivalent for Body Points), whilst they are being worn?

[Zenithfleet]

Just sticking my head in the door to clarify one point:

That said the effects of zero Mind Points are not listed anywhere in the rules so I have always assumed that the standard behaviour would be the equivalent to Body Points being reduced to zero as the two are directly equivalent so unless otherwise stated I assume the effects are the same – DEATH

I know you're talking about the North American rules, but for the benefit of random readers out there, the original European basic game rules do state that zero Mind points means death:

"During the game you may gain or lose Mind points. Keep track of your current score on your character sheet. If the total ever reaches zero, your character is eliminated."
p5, EU 2nd edition Rules of Play

(Occasionally this rule is overidden by special consequences in certain quests, like Bellthor knocking you unconscious instead.)

[Bareheaded Warrior]

Correct, spot on.

Another example of where the EA rules were clear and consistent and the NA rules caused confusion by omission. I do sometimes wonder whether the designers of the NA edition perhaps misplaced the rule book when unboxing the EA edition. Understandable when faced with all that cool furniture!

[Shark]

Yes but in the EU version of ATOH under the Mind Blast spell it states “If a character or a monster loses all his mind points as a result of a mind blast, he is knock unconscious and remains out of play for the rest of the quest. Mind point's are recovered between quests in the same way as body points”.

Now do you read this for Mind blast only or any time you lose mind points is another thing.

Also for those that are allowing an increase in Mind Points to allow more spells do be cast, is that based on the maximum MP or current. Eg If a player who can use magic spells loses a mind point do they lose some spells as well, and if reduced enough do they temporarily lose the ability to cast at all?

I was thinking of doing something similar with increasing the number of spells casted with MP, but then had a player lose a MP in a test, and let it go.
But not sure that’s the correct way yet.

[Zenithfleet]

Yes but in the EU version of ATOH under the Mind Blast spell it states “If a character or a monster loses all his mind points as a result of a mind blast, he is knock unconscious and remains out of play for the rest of the quest. Mind point's are recovered between quests in the same way as body points”.

Now do you read this for Mind blast only or any time you lose mind points is another thing.

The general approach is that specific quest notes, or cards, override the normal rules.

Bellthor the poisonous gargoyle in Return of the Witch Lord is another example--he reduces your Mind points with his attacks, and heroes are knocked unconscious by it, not killed as they normally would be.

So Mind Blast only knocks you unconscious, whereas reaching 0 MP by other means will murderise ya.

Also for those that are allowing an increase in Mind Points to allow more spells do be cast, is that based on the maximum MP or current. Eg If a player who can use magic spells loses a mind point do they lose some spells as well, and if reduced enough do they temporarily lose the ability to cast at all?

I was thinking of doing something similar with increasing the number of spells casted with MP, but then had a player lose a MP in a test, and let it go.
But not sure that’s the correct way yet.

I would base it on the maximum Mind points. e.g. The Elf always has 1 spell set (4 MP) and the Wizard has 3 spell sets (6 MP), but they don't lose spell cards if they happen to lose Mind points.

It would be an interesting house rule, though!

[wallydubbs]

It's not in the basic rules, but I've played home rules that if the Wizard or Elf increase in mind points they can cast an extra spell set, of course this was after the discovery of Wizards of Morcar spell.
I primarily did this for the later expansions like Frozen Horror, where the quests are much longer it'll give the Wizard some extra actions and maybe help out the heroes with the harder quests.
Since the Barbarian will be getting the Amulet of the North it doesn't seem logistic to where two amulets around his neck so I surmised giving it to the Wizard to increase his spells.
If it goes to the Elf he can get an extra set too.
If the Dwarf gets it and goes up to 4MP I allow him to cast Earth spells, but only on himself.
In like manner, losing a MP results in losing a spell set. This would increase the importance of MP, certainly for the Elf and Wizard. This would also make the Potion of Restoration more useful.

[Bareheaded Warrior]

I've commented on the "increase MP means more spells" discussion on the Using Wizards of Morcar as a 'parts pack'? topic although it is covered in loads of other places on the forum, but on other points...

Yes but in the EU version of ATOH under the Mind Blast spell it states “If a character or a monster loses all his mind points as a result of a mind blast, he is knock unconscious and remains out of play for the rest of the quest. Mind point's are recovered between quests in the same way as body points”.

I've added the italics but I think that particular statement is clear, but it is part of a trend that I have noticed as I move through to later editions and quest packs, of moving from the "we don't really use MP in the initial quests" approach to a "we are now implementing MP use but have realised that it is flawed and need to patch it up" approach in later Quests which I have laid out here Change of Mind