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Is "see" the same thing as "line of sight?"

Discuss the Rules of HeroQuest as set out by Milton Bradley Game Systems and Quest Packs.

Re: Is "see" the same thing as "line of sight?"

Postby Jalapenotrellis » Monday August 19th, 2019 10:12pm

I feel like that's a pretty core defining element of HeroQuest positioning tactics that you "house ruled." The game is easy enough I feel, having experience up to quest 12. But I mean, you're allowed to do what you want, but I'd not be able to attend those games.
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Re: Is "see" the same thing as "line of sight?"

Postby mitchiemasha » Monday August 19th, 2019 10:29pm

Uncle_Elvis wrote:I house ruled a lot of these line of sight deals. Heroes do not block other heroes' line of sight nor do monsters block monsters' line of sight.


More so for MAGIC, where the very art of the box supports the house ruling. Apart from through doorways. Got to keep this solid. For crossbows i always let it slide, no one ever tried to shoot (dared to ask) if directly blocked, usually only if slightly off centre that could be should be blocked, apart from the traditional, can I shoot over the Dwarf/Goblins Head?


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Re: Is "see" the same thing as "line of sight?"

Postby mitchiemasha » Monday August 19th, 2019 10:52pm

Jalapenotrellis wrote:I feel like that's a pretty core defining element of HeroQuest positioning tactics that you "house ruled."


Yes, positioning tactics is very important to HQ, a large part of the game. Most of ours are spent deciding who goes where to best achieve what. Even better with a timer, to which the EW gets a token for each time it elapses on the Heroes turns.

Seeing as were on LoS... here's me diagramming SPACEHULK, when they amended 4th from the dreaded attempts at fixing it in 3rd. You'll need to enlarge it. In the original Space Hulk you'd always want to shoot the closest (all badies are the same). Once variation is introduced, like Heorquest we get this HUGE issue. As Spacehulk discovered after introducing Hybrids and Longer rooms, the wide corridors.

https://boardgamegeek.com/image/2622392/mitchiemasha

Shooting through certain squares can get complicated due to placement of models etc, what is visible, isn't visible.

You'd have to play a lot of those types of rooms to understand why this phrase is very important, "A model blocked from LoS that would usually block LoS doesn’t." otherwise it makes no sense at all. Thankfully Heroquest rooms aren't long enough by default for the issue to pop up much. We did play HQ on modular AHQ tiles for a while and there you will need to resolve it. It's easier to mod all hitable unless directly blocked, rather than introducing complex rules like the diagram.

Edit: to try make it have at least a tiny bit of sense!!!
Last edited by mitchiemasha on Monday August 19th, 2019 11:48pm, edited 7 times in total.


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Re: Is "see" the same thing as "line of sight?"

Postby hightechartist » Monday August 19th, 2019 10:57pm

Even though it's not the rules, I'll probably run line-of-sight as a stricter category of "see"; where only walls count against "see", but BOTH figures and walls count against line-of-sight. So "shooty" actions like ranged attacks and fireballs require line-of-sight, but other actions like Rust only require "seeing" the target.

mitchiemasha wrote:More examples of why wrote what i did in the other thread

mitchiemasha wrote:
hightechartist wrote:I'm not interested in house rules,


The problem there is you'll come to realise that there are huge differences between the version and even how you interpret the words with in those versions..


It's pretty much impossible to play perfect as intended, there's too many places people can choose to interpret what "intended" is. The only way is to house rule it, to have it solidified for your group. Knowing where all those interpretations can jump up makes for a better group runner, you're prepared for the silly disagreements.


When I said I'm not interested in house rules in the other thread, I meant in terms of answering my questions about "Rules as Written". I pretty much always run these sorts of games with house rules, but I don't like to make house rules until I thoroughly understand what the printed rules are first.
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Re: Is "see" the same thing as "line of sight?"

Postby mitchiemasha » Monday August 19th, 2019 11:08pm

hightechartist wrote: I pretty much always run these sorts of games with house rules, but I don't like to make house rules until I thoroughly understand what the printed rules are first.


That's a very good approach. I'm happy now.


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Re: Is "see" the same thing as "line of sight?"

Postby mitchiemasha » Monday August 19th, 2019 11:42pm

I've edited my other post. It really made no sense at all. Probably still doesn't but once it does pop up, you'll know exactly what I'm going on about.


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Re: Is "see" the same thing as "line of sight?"

Postby Kurgan » Saturday September 7th, 2019 2:04pm

Speaking solely of the NA version I grew up with...

I've always understood "line of sight" to be blocked by the presence of another figure or object. There are exceptions that "make sense" like shooting a crossbow over the top of a table to hit a monster on the other side (but not allowing the same for a bookshelf). Or a Wizard standing behind the Dwarf in a corridor shooting a spell over his head to hit the Gargoyle at the other end of the hall. But when it comes to "searching a room" I presume the Hero is searching the whole room (or corridor) and the presence of a monster in that room or corridor (unless he's asleep on the floor) interferes with that process, so he can't do it.

When you open a door, everything in the room is automatically revealed (except stuff you have to search for, obviously). But not everything you can "see" in the sense of line of sight. Meaning you can only shoot monsters in the room with spells or shoot at them with projectiles if you can trace an invisible line with your finger from your figure to there's and no other figures being in the way.

I let heroes move through heroes and monsters move through monsters* (as the rules allow), but not shoot through each other (but when somebody else is Zargon, it may be different).

*But not Ogres!

Edit: Did I just earn the rank of "Necromancer" for reviving dead threads? |_P
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Re: Is "see" the same thing as "line of sight?"

Postby Anderas » Saturday September 7th, 2019 10:47pm

Yes that'd be great :-D
And then you get to become the High Mage by shooting other's threads. :-D


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Re: Is "see" the same thing as "line of sight?"

Postby Jalapenotrellis » Sunday September 8th, 2019 2:33pm

Kurgan wrote:Speaking solely of the NA version I grew up with...

I've always understood "line of sight" to be blocked by the presence of another figure or object. There are exceptions that "make sense" like shooting a crossbow over the top of a table to hit a monster on the other side (but not allowing the same for a bookshelf). Or a Wizard standing behind the Dwarf in a corridor shooting a spell over his head to hit the Gargoyle at the other end of the hall. But when it comes to "searching a room" I presume the Hero is searching the whole room (or corridor) and the presence of a monster in that room or corridor (unless he's asleep on the floor) interferes with that process, so he can't do it.

When you open a door, everything in the room is automatically revealed (except stuff you have to search for, obviously). But not everything you can "see" in the sense of line of sight. Meaning you can only shoot monsters in the room with spells or shoot at them with projectiles if you can trace an invisible line with your finger from your figure to there's and no other figures being in the way.

I let heroes move through heroes and monsters move through monsters* (as the rules allow), but not shoot through each other (but when somebody else is Zargon, it may be different).

*But not Ogres!

Edit: Did I just earn the rank of "Necromancer" for reviving dead threads? |_P


I have always ruled by the book that even the dwarf will block line of sight. However, I let heroes cast or shoot over a table. Should I be letting them shoot over the dwarf? According to the website for people with dwarfism, they may only be 4'0" but up to about 4'8".
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Re: Is "see" the same thing as "line of sight?"

Postby Kurgan » Sunday September 8th, 2019 3:20pm

The explanations are the best. I mean you could argue that the guys on your side know to "Matrix" out of the way of your attacks. Maybe the Dwarf is fairly tall and still blocks line of sight, just like a goblin would block the line of sight of a taller monster with ranged abilities.
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