Is "see" the same thing as "line of sight?"

[hightechartist]

If a Hero's line of sight to a monster is blocked by other heroes, does that mean he can't "see" the monster?
Or are "see" and line-of-sight two different things, by the rules?

If they are the same thing, does that mean the Dwarf could be searching for traps and secret doors in the same room as monsters as long as there the other three Heroes have formed a wall blocking line-of-sight?

[Jalapenotrellis]

I play that heroes can only search limited to line of sight rules in corridors if monsters are present. However, if done, the hero blocking line of sight would have already triggered any traps he is searching for. It would only help with searching secret doors in a corridor with extra monsters, which who cares...not a priority.

Treasure criteria is room not inhabited by monsters.
Traps and doors are "can't see a monster", but then it ought to be limited only to line of sight, again in which case the forefront heroes blocking line of sight have already triggered any traps.

So basically, if a monster is present searching is not worth while in rooms, and in corridors, the monster prevents searching from the vanguard hero to the monster and behind.

Once the heroes get the crossbow, which can be the first thing they buy if they want, it is even more unlikely to trigger hallway traps since the monsters then have to chase the hero to get a hit in before they die, or if the monster goes out of line of sight, heroes can just search the hallway. So basically the crossbow ruins bait trapping by monsters in the hallway.

[hightechartist]

I play that heroes can only search limited to line of sight rules in corridors if monsters are present. However, if done, the hero blocking line of sight would have already triggered any traps he is searching for. It would only help with searching secret doors in a corridor with extra monsters, which who cares...not a priority.

Treasure criteria is room not inhabited by monsters.
Traps and doors are "can't see a monster", but then it ought to be limited only to line of sight, again in which case the forefront heroes blocking line of sight have already triggered any traps.

So basically, if a monster is present searching is not worth while in rooms, and in corridors, the monster prevents searching from the vanguard hero to the monster and behind.

Once the heroes get the crossbow, which can be the first thing they buy if they want, it is even more unlikely to trigger hallway traps since the monsters then have to chase the hero to get a hit in before they die, or if the monster goes out of line of sight, heroes can just search the hallway. So basically the crossbow ruins bait trapping by monsters in the hallway.

I don't understand how you figure that the heroes blocking line of sight would have already triggered any traps?

[Jalapenotrellis]

Because if searches are line of sight only, and it is limited by the heroes, the heroes blocking line of sight would have triggered any traps within the search range. Makes no sense the hero in the back could search a full room for traps with monsters present just because he's hidden from direct line of sight in part of the room.

[hightechartist]

I don't know if I'm having a stroke or what, but I still don't understand your logic.
Here's an example. The dwarf cannot "see" the monsters because line-of-sight is blocked, correct?
So he should be able to search for and find the pit traps to the south of him, correct? (assuming they haven't already been set off).

[Jalapenotrellis]

I agree with you in this figure. However, I've not encountered a room like that. I was thinking the traps would be on the monster side.

[hightechartist]

I agree with you in this figure. However, I've not encountered a room like that. I was thinking the traps would be on the monster side.

Ok, just making sure I wasn't missing something.

Also, thanks for pointing out that the treasure search rules are different, I had missed that. So if the monsters were out in the hallway and the dwarf could see them but was in a room where there weren't monsters at the moment, he could search for treasure. (I'm aware that that is not typically a logical thing to do, but I just started a game and the player playing the dwarf is playing him "in character" as obsessed with treasure, and would absolutely search for treasure when the rest of the party was in battle if he could. )

[Jalapenotrellis]

I agree with you in this figure. However, I've not encountered a room like that. I was thinking the traps would be on the monster side.

Ok, just making sure I wasn't missing something.

Also, thanks for pointing out that the treasure search rules are different, I had missed that. So if the monsters were out in the hallway and the dwarf could see them but was in a room where there weren't monsters at the moment, he could search for treasure. (I'm aware that that is not typically a logical thing to do, but I just started a game and the player playing the dwarf is playing him "in character" as obsessed with treasure, and would absolutely search for treasure when the rest of the party was in battle if he could. )

That's hilarious!
We have a player who runs off on his own too, even leaving the others in bad situations. And everyone is an adult over 30. Lol

[mitchiemasha]

More examples of why wrote what i did in the other thread

I'm not interested in house rules,

The problem there is you'll come to realise that there are huge differences between the version and even how you interpret the words with in those versions..

It's pretty much impossible to play perfect as intended, there's too many places people can choose to interpret what "intended" is. The only way is to house rule it, to have it solidified for your group. Knowing where all those interpretations can jump up makes for a better group runner, you're prepared for the silly disagreements.

Originally. Heroes cannot search in the presence of monsters, same room or corridor. There is no line of sight for this, the American version didn't need to add that to the search part, as an extra stipulation for clarification, it only further confused people.

Edit. But I'm OK playing either way.

[Uncle_Elvis]

I house ruled a lot of these line of sight deals. Heroes do not block other heroes' line of sight nor do monsters block monsters' line of sight. Maybe not consistent with real world situations, but it is consistent with games like Heroclix (in which my buddies and I have a background). This makes the crossbow kind of overpowered, but my rebuttal to that was arming goblins with crossbows