Armour and Base Defense

[keyansark]

Hi all:

Searching in heroquest.es, I've seen that they are considering that whenever you get an armour Item, the defense that item provides is added to the base defense of the character. This seems fine with helmets, bracers, shield and the like, but, also armour??

I've always considered that when you get armour your base defense is replaced by the defense provided by the new armour (so 2D goes to 3D, but no 5D). Am i Wrong at this?

JM

[torilen]

actually, I thought that is how it worked - all characters have a 2 DD base, and any armor
adds to that. Am I wrong?

If I am wrong, then I agree - it should add to it.

[drathe]

Minimum Defence is 2. Everything that states an extra # in defence is added. Items that state allows # dice in defence don't add, they include the base defence. (ie Borin's Armour)

[Bareheaded Warrior]

I do think that the text on the Armour cards or Armory (depending on your version) could be simpler

Looking at how you can combine armour in the NA edition breaks down into the following rules 4 rules

• Helmet & Shield can be combined with each other, and each gives an extra defend die on top of the starting value of 2
• Helmet and/or Shield can be combined with Mail and each of them adds an extra defend die on top of the starting value of 2
• Helmet and/or Shield can be combined with Plate Mail, giving an extra defend die added onto the 2 that Plate Mail provides on its own, on top of the starting value of 2
• Mail cannot be combined with Plate Mail

Plus, one additional special rule

• Plate Mail restricts movement to one die

Isn't this a simpler solution?

1. All armour items just +1DD to your base 2DD
2. All armour items 'stack' i.e. can be combined with each other
3. Remove the movement penalty from Plate armour
4. Remove all “can be combined with“ text from all armour

[Anderas]

I think I have seen this:
2 base defense
Shield +1 defense
Helmet +1 defense
Chain mail +1 defense
Plate: +1 defense, -1 move dice
Borin's Armor: +1 defense but no -1 move dice.

You can stack all of them, except borin's Armor does not go with Plate.
That was the simplest.

But I like others, too. I myself made it a bit more complicated for my personal use.

[Kurgan]

Plate Armor reducing you to one movement die doesn't seem affected by the carrying of Chests in Prince Magnus' Gold. It also doesn't account for other later modifications to the player's movement dice (if you were rolling five movement dice, would you be reduced to 1, would it be cut in half or just reduced BY one with the Plate on?).

I think the most sensible way is to apply the movement penalty first, THEN add on any bonuses to movement from spells, artifacts, potions.

As for body Armor, in the EU editions it seems like the armor is meant to "re-calculate" your base defense while worn. This can be confusing, but it comes out the same.

So you have 2 base defense, but when you put on the Plate, suddenly your base is 4.

In the NA edition it clarifies that body armors simply add dice... for example Plate just adds 2. So Base defense 2 + 2 = 4. Shield and Helmet each add 1. Bracers add 1. Cloak adds 1. Chainmail adds 1 (or resets your base defense to 2 in the EU rules).

It doesn't mean Chainmail gives you 2 extra or Borin's Armor/Plate gives you 4 more. That would be insane and I don't think was the intention! It means you'd be rolling 8 dice just from equipment (remember that spells and potions can add even more defense... Rock Skin adds 1 in NA but 2 in EU... potion of defense adds 2, etc). But the number of dice in the box doesn't limit your rolls. If the situation calls for it, you roll as many dice as you are supposed to!

Many debates were once held over Borin's Armor, but at least in the Remake it was clarified that it is simply magical Plate Armor (+2 defense, no movement penalty) and can be combined with a helmet and/or shield.

Some things aren't made perfectly clear but are guessed from logic. So you can only wear one helmet, and only one set of body armor (but bracers and cloak could be combined... though in the Remake ---which doesn't have the cloak---rules it seems Bracers could be combined only with the helmet and/or shield not another body armor).

What about the Wizard's Cloak? I would imagine they intended for the Wizard's Cloak (for Wizard or Warlock only) to be able to be combined with Bracers as in EU edition having the cloak/bracers combination but it was probably an oversight that they didn't mention this.

Otherwise logically you could carry two shields (but therefore couldn't attack because your hands are full so you can't hold a weapon).

[Bareheaded Warrior]

We use "Borin's Amulet" - increases the wearer’s starting Body Points by one for as long as it is worn - not just to avoid the old debates, but because giving away the most expensive piece of kit in the whole game only a few quests in just seems dumb!

[Bareheaded Warrior]

Equipment Cards

These cards improve the characters’ abilities. When using a weapon Equipment card the character player rolls the number of dice shown for that weapon, instead of the number of dice shown on his character board against Attack.

The armour Equipment cards are used in the same way. However, some cards like the shield and the helmet cards, allow you to roll an extra die. This is an extra die in addition to the those you would normally roll. If, for example, you had the chainmail card and the shield card you would roll a total of four combat dice in defence.

You may not wear more than one type of body armour at one time.

However, the relevant Equipment cards themselves do not mention the term "Body Armour" anywhere.

Bracers
The bracers allow you to roll one extra combat die in defence.
Cost 200 gold pieces
May only be used by Wizard.
ARMOUR

Cloak of Protection
The cloak allows you to roll one extra combat die in defence.
Cost 350 gold coins
May only be used by Wizard.
ARMOUR

The shield
The shield gives you one extra combat die in defence.
Cost 100 gold coins.
May not be used by Wizard.
ARMOUR

The Helmet
The helmet gives you one extra combat die in defence.
Cost 120 gold coins.
May not be used by Wizard.
ARMOUR

Chain Mail
Chain mail armour allows you to roll three combat dice in defence.
Cost 450 gold coins.
May not be used by Wizard.
ARMOUR

Plate armour
Plate armour allows you to roll four combat dice in defence, BUT You may only roll one die for movement whilst wearing plate armour.
Cost 850 gold coins.
May not be used by Wizard.
ARMOUR

My assumption has always been that those that state "allows you to roll x combat dice in defence" ARE Body armour and cannot be combined with each other i.e. plate and chainmail and those that state "allows you to roll one extra combat die in defence" are NOT Body armour and can be combined with body armour and each other which I think is borne out by the example given in the rulebook, but it is only an assumption and is not specifically stated in the rules.

Also, as the Bracers and Cloak of Protection specify "May only be used by Wizard" that neatly avoids any confusion as they are the only 2 items specified as such.

However, given the confusion that has arisen in this area (even the Second Edition needed the additional paragraph of text presumably to allay confusion that had already arisen during play testing or was anticipated) I would suggest the following modifications for absolute clarity and simplicity.

Equipment Cards

These cards improve the characters’ abilities. When using a weapon Equipment card the character player rolls the number of dice shown for that weapon, instead of the number of dice shown on his character board against Attack.

The armour Equipment cards allow you to roll an extra die. This is an extra die in addition to the those you would normally roll. If, for example, you had the chainmail card and the shield card you would roll a total of four combat dice in defence.

The Wizard may not use any Equipment labelled as ARMOUR.

Bracers
The bracers give you one extra combat die in defence.
Cost 200 gold pieces
May only be used by Wizard.

Cloak of Protection
The cloak gives you one extra combat die in defence.
Cost 350 gold coins
May only be used by Wizard.

Shield
The shield gives you one extra combat die in defence.
Cost 100 gold coins.
ARMOUR

Helmet
The helmet gives you one extra combat die in defence.
Cost 120 gold coins.
ARMOUR

Chain mail
Chain mail armour gives you one extra combat die in defence.
Cost 450 gold coins.
ARMOUR

Plate armour
Plate armour gives you one extra combat die in defence, BUT You may only roll one die for movement whilst wearing plate armour.
Cost 850 gold coins.
ARMOUR

This gives the added advantage that it means to get the full 6DD you would need to purchase and wear/use Chain mail, Plate, Shield and Helmet for a greater cost of 450+850+100+120 = 1520 which helps with extending out the existing Advancement system.

[Kurgan]

So I was wrong, actually it's:

Two Shields and no Weapon = 1 attack die, 4 defend dice.