Can Monsters open doors if...?

[mitchiemasha]

But where do you draw the line?
You let a monster open a door and go into the next room. Do you set up that next room or do you hold the monster back until a hero enters that room?
Is it always a possibility for you to just have the heroes fight two rooms of monsters? I guess that's the question that I wanna ask.
Because that is basically, how should I put it, an option for you to cheat the other players.
It outweighs fairness and makes you more of a referee instaed of a fifth player that can have fun trying to defeat the heroes within the confines of a rule system.

What he said... And more so why i worded the Escape token to be the way it was. Unless it is specifically noted in the Quest notes, opening rooms breaks the game. It can be fun in some extreme unique cases but should remain rare! And, not because you chose to do it rarely, the mechanic has to make it rare. If it's your choice all of the time, it is broken.

[Gomcse]

I do see what you mean, and I see where it could create a "cheat" for me if I don't balance it or play fair. I'm not here to "just kill the Heroes," I'm here to let them have a good time...but with balance. If I feel they need more of a challenge, I'll provide that by modding. If they're having a hard enough time, I just keep it Rules As Written. I think we have a responsibility when running this game, and I believe you and I are on the same page with it.

[The Admiral]

I remember the Sentry fiasco in Advanced Heroquest. It seemed a really interesting and fun rule, but quickly turned into a fiasco as the sentry disappeared off through a myriad of doors. We restricted it to one door per sentry. But that is the kind of thing that could be added here in a fan written quest as a one off situation. There are many instances in HQ games where doors are opened under certain circumstances to surprise the Heroes. These are fun as they are rare and therefore unsuspected, but for the monsters to have this ability on a regular basis would not be to my liking.

Returning to the original question of this thread all those years ago concerning monsters placed in a room triggered by a pass through rock spell. As a long time EW player I would not allow it. The monsters are still getting some benefit though by being able to set up in an optimum fashion.

As to the more recent discussion concerning how Evil should the EW be? Tricky. I like the odds in a quest stacked in the Heroes favour so that I can go all out to kill them, knowing I will probably fail, as I do most of the time. In my most recent HQ gaming with my brother his main dwarf charachter has the two final quests of Against the Ogre Horde to play and his party are in a sorry state. One Hero is dead and there is only one healing potion left. I don't think he's going to make it. He's fairly outraged, but I have explained this will be, if it happens, the first total party wipe out since we discovered the US HQ about 15 years ago. The Previous closest was when his main Elf was the sole survivor of Mage in the Mirror on 2BP's and that was so much fun. Trying to get a reasonable balance where the Heroes at least feel under pressure is hard. a quest where the Heroes cruise it is not fun, but that also has only happened once.

[knightkrawler]

The Elf was the only one who survived Mage of the Mirror by the skin of his teeth. That's poetic!

[Xd_Over]

I had a similar situation when the Elf player cast Veil of Mist on themselves to walk in and out of a room to scout it out... Same room from the trial too i think!
The spell says "the player can move unseen through spaces occupied by player or monster" so for this I would say them being unseen leaves the door closed and the monsters undisturbed.
Your pass through rock scenario I believe would wake whatever enemy was on the other side and allowing them to open the door.

[The Admiral]

I had a similar situation when the Elf player cast Veil of Mist on themselves to walk in and out of a room to scout it out... Same room from the trial too i think!
The spell says "the player can move unseen through spaces occupied by player or monster" so for this I would say them being unseen leaves the door closed and the monsters undisturbed.
Your pass through rock scenario I believe would wake whatever enemy was on the other side and allowing them to open the door.

I don't think Veil of mist allows a Hero to move through a closed door; only models. The Elf would still have to open the door and that would trigger the room and any monsters therein.

[knightkrawler]

The "unseen" is just a mechanic that allows the hero to "move through" other figures. It has nothing to do with the game terms "see" or "visible". It just means he can do that as an exception, the other figure pretending to not see him as opposed to stepping in his way to not let him pass like during normal movement. And it clearly says "player or monster" as quoted by yourself. It has nothing to do with doors or walls or toast or cars, only with monsters and "players", which is of course a stupid choice of word when they should have used "hero" instead of "player" all through the rules.

[HispaZargon]

basically, don't let monsters open doors but do some exceptions. The master can change rules but do not abuse... only change rules to make the quest more exciting, not to cheat and kill the heroes!

Yes and no... Can't go changing the game willy nilly, that's cheating. A few here agree to adding small minor changes mid game but others seriously frown upon it. If not playing it HeroQuest style EW vs Heroes mid game changes could be allowed but otherwise they'd all have to be prequest.

Monsters can open doors, it would be silly to think that they can't. BUT! That's not what the mechanic represents. People are often confused by this. "why would they wait there" " why wouldn't 1 monster alert all the others, opening the doors" etc! It's not that the doors are 'locked' to monsters, it's that the Quest book dictates an unfolding story, regardless to what ever that story is, the moment the Heroes confront said monsters, will always be in that room.

Upon entering a dungeon, 2 orcs in the 2nd room, could of been in the 4th, rushing towards the Heroes. The Goblin with them could of seen the Heroes enter and ran to alert them. Regardless to what the Heroes do, how long they take, they will always encounter the 2 Orcs and Goblin in the 2nd room. It's up to the players imagination to construct the fantasy around this or non at all.

The time line is replaced by a place line.

'Monsters can't open doors' is just an extremely simple and perfect way to handle the concept. Especially for kids.

Another one "surely the monsters in the next room would hear the heroes!" Who's to say they don't, awaiting an ambush? Who's to say they are even in there yet?

Based on this interpretation, I have designed some simple rules to deal with how Zargon could react to loud noise caused by the Heroes due to close combat noise (metallic sounds coming from weapons/armors hits and monsters/heroes shouting).

You can find more related info in this new thread.

[Kurgan]

In Space Crusade bad guys can freely open doors. I think there was only one time where I, as Zargon, felt that the heroes were (basically) abusing the fact that a door stood between them and some known about monsters and they refused to open it. So I allowed a roll to see if the monsters could batter down the door. It took many attempts but eventually they succeeded (I was making it clear this was not a usual event).

[Kurgan]

"Big boss told us to guard this area and that's what we're going to do!"
"Yes, smaller boss!"