Can Monsters open doors if...?

[Daedalus]

I usually go with the rule that a named monster is essentially and evil hero and can then open doors. Witchlord, Skulmar etc... should all be able to open doors. The minions shouldn't. Gives the strong monsters tactical options without rendering the generic monsters broken.

Your houserule has some merit, but raises a few questions for me. Is a named monster able to open doors before it is revealed? (I imagine not.) If so, must Quest Notes dictate when? What about when the named monster is no longer in view of any Hero?

Also, is a named monster--being essentially a Hero--able to search for secret doors and treasure?

[kyrrahn]

We normally have them follow the same guidelines set out for the final quest in WoM. We reveal areas as the monster goes there but there's no searching for treasure and no trying not to be all "Benny Hill" and lead the heroes on a non stop chase. It's more about giving the EW options so that the game can have a bit of cat and mouse. I saw it being abused once and it ruined the game but in its defence if you're playing against experienced players it forces them to adapt their tactics. Like most home-brewing it can be broken if you abuse it but it adds to the game if done right.

[mitchiemasha]

We normally have them follow the same guidelines set out for the final quest in WoM. We reveal areas as the monster goes there but there's no searching for treasure and no trying not to be all "Benny Hill" and lead the heroes on a non stop chase. It's more about giving the EW options so that the game can have a bit of cat and mouse. I saw it being abused once and it ruined the game but in its defence if you're playing against experienced players it forces them to adapt their tactics. Like most home-brewing it can be broken if you abuse it but it adds to the game if done right.

I can't get on board with what you are writing here. A rule is a rule. There is no abusing it or not. A player should play out the best way it can be played. If i'm thinking i'm not going to do something because it will ruin the game, but it can be done, that means that mod/rule is broken and shouldn't be there.

Put another way... Imagine playing soft then just at the point you start to lose you whip out this 'new' rule that was there all along but didn't want to use it. That's going to upset many players and seem like you're just making it up as you go along.

If you make mods, as the modder, it's your responsibility to balance them.

Like we know players can abuse waiting outside rooms, rerolling into multiple turns for high movement (not that i've seen this but it can be done) so we introduce things like Chaos Tokens/Deck or Hazard on rolling double 1's. Mods that add fun to the game but are actually 'secretly' fixing ways experienced, purely mechanical players can 'abuse' the original rules, with out changing the original rules... As that is very UN HEROQUEST. Not welcome! lol!!!

As modders we have to think of the ways the rules can be abused and work away that abuse, with out ruining the fun or over complicating things. NOT, just simply not doing something to play more fairly. That is the very definition of BROKEN!

[Goblin-King]

We normally have them follow the same guidelines set out for the final quest in WoM. We reveal areas as the monster goes there but there's no searching for treasure and no trying not to be all "Benny Hill" and lead the heroes on a non stop chase. It's more about giving the EW options so that the game can have a bit of cat and mouse. I saw it being abused once and it ruined the game but in its defence if you're playing against experienced players it forces them to adapt their tactics. Like most home-brewing it can be broken if you abuse it but it adds to the game if done right.

I can't get on board with what you are writing here. A rule is a rule. There is no abusing it or not. A player should play out the best way it can be played. If i'm thinking i'm not going to do something because it will ruin the game, but it can be done, that means that mod/rule is broken and shouldn't be there.

Put another way... Imagine playing soft then just at the point you start to lose you whip out this 'new' rule that was there all along but didn't want to use it. That's going to upset many players and seem like you're just making it up as you go along.

If you make mods, as the modder, it's your responsibility to balance them.

Like we know players can abuse waiting outside rooms, rerolling into multiple turns for high movement (not that i've seen this but it can be done) so we introduce things like Chaos Tokens/Deck or Hazard on rolling double 1's. Mods that add fun to the game but are actually 'secretly' fixing ways experienced, purely mechanical players can 'abuse' the original rules, with out changing the original rules... As that is very UN HEROQUEST. Not welcome! lol!!!

As modders we have to think of the ways the rules can be abused and work away that abuse, with out ruining the fun or over complicating things. NOT, just simply not doing something to play more fairly. That is the very definition of BROKEN!

This is the ancient discussion of whether the EWP is a player trying to win or a game master facilitating fun.
Both are valid viewpoints.

[mitchiemasha]

Both are valid viewpoints.

I agree... Both are valid to how a group choose to play.

When I play as EW i tend to do a bit of both. I see killing at least 1 hero a win. Complete wipes are no fun for players and should be quite rare, the fastest way to lose a group. We all want to progress through the story and the EW will lose in the end, overall, eventually.

My point however is, if their's a rule when abused, you pretty much always win, this is broken, regardless to the facilitate fun or play to win debate. If you feel like winning that day, abuse it!!! that's not how mods should exists. If it can be abused, it needs to be balanced. Not completely, just countered. I like games to have wonky balancing, different approaches to play, depending.

[Gomcse]

Actually, this came up for us and I decided that if a hero made a room "visible," then Zargon could sound an alarm and open at least one door to that room. That gives the monsters a way out.

[knightkrawler]

Actually, this came up for us and I decided that if a hero made a room "visible," then Zargon could sound an alarm and open at least one door to that room. That gives the monsters a way out.

But what do you do when a monster escapes into the next room? Do you set it up or do you just add that monster to the contents when that room is discovered by a hero?

[mitchiemasha]

The Escape token could use this feature. Escape through a closed door, place the monster in the room, don't reveal the room. The monster can no longer move until the room is revealed.

It would be perceived that they are waiting for you in that room.

[Gomcse]

Actually, this came up for us and I decided that if a hero made a room "visible," then Zargon could sound an alarm and open at least one door to that room. That gives the monsters a way out.

But what do you do when a monster escapes into the next room? Do you set it up or do you just add that monster to the contents when that room is discovered by a hero?

More of a chase. I'm not adding more monsters, just using monsters that already exist. By opening a door I can have the heroes experience consequences when they try to be too squirrelly. If the situation works best adding to the contents of the room, I'll do that. Otherwise, the monsters will make a run towards the heroes.

[knightkrawler]

I didn't imply that you would simply change the overall number of monsters within the quest.
But where do you draw the line?
You let a monster open a door and go into the next room. Do you set up that next room or do you hold the monster back until a hero enters that room?
Is it always a possibility for you to just have the heroes fight two rooms of monsters? I guess that's the question that I wanna ask.
Because that is basically, how should I put it, an option for you to cheat the other players.
It outweighs fairness and makes you more of a referee instaed of a fifth player that can have fun trying to defeat the heroes within the confines of a rule system.