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Traps on the other side of the door

Discuss the Rules of HeroQuest as set out by Milton Bradley Game Systems and Quest Packs.

Re: Traps on the other side of the door

Postby mitchiemasha » Monday June 17th, 2019 5:36pm

Anderas wrote:It is. The mechanic of it is a beauty but the choice of symbols is a mess.


Agreed. The symbol choice should be the other way round*... And, the mechanic of it is a beauty. At a potential -3Bp, in no way should this be falling directly on to you.

As for those who disagree, I'll repeat myself, it wasn't supposed to be a trap that hurts you, it was supposed to be a cave in that falls behind to separate you and/or block the way back. They're other falling rocks that fall on you, they only cause 1Bp of damage and they don't block the way.

Maurice76 wrote:If they wanted to do that for blocking purposes only, they should have made much more creative use of them ;).

Maurice76 wrote:What I meant to say was that they'd need to implement it better into the Quest.

I rechecked the original UK Quest book and there's no lack of creativity, they're implemented perfectly in the way I specified.

Melars Maze, the first hero to walk along that top corridor will get separated from the group. Only in a rare circumstance would another Hero be stood on the cave in square as you pass the trigger square. That hero would suffer the potential 3BP and get a choice which way to go if surviving. Less likely to choose to go with the separated Hero if badly wounded form the 3 Cd6, keeping the separation as intended. Ironically, the Hero suffering the 3 Cd6 could of been the player buzzing on rolling a 12, only to realise this fetal error when the next hero passes (but this would be incredibly rare).
Barak Tor, the cave in doesn't happen until the last hero passes, so no trigger square, it falls where it's marked, no one is harmed.
Spirit Blade, these aren't corridor blocking cave ins, no special trigger square, it falls on where it's marked. You risk losing 1BP. They're lots of them. It's an old dungeon, not traps. If you have a helmet, less likely to be hurt. One could also see the roll for these as rocks not actually falling when you pass the roll, not that that matters.

It's worth noting, the trigger square and cave in square don't have to be next to each other, they could be at either ends of the room. Being the UK way creates more possibilities for your own quest designs, without the need for extra rules. In the movies, cave ins hardly ever kill or seriously harm the main characters, they always divide or block the path. The original way makes "much more sense to me". The US way still exists, simply don't use the arrow. PERFECT!

EW Screen wrote: Any Character who moves through a falling block trap square will trigger the trap. The block will fall into the square marked with the arrow, blocking the way.

*there's a good chance they did it the way it is for the simplicity of writing it, as it's wrote on the screen. They couldn't write, a hero that passes through an arrow, arrows are used for other things.


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Re: Traps on the other side of the door

Postby Jalapenotrellis » Monday June 17th, 2019 7:26pm

Well I will probably switch to EU rules when I get to this expansion if there is no "Americanized" version. I imagine it will make more sense that way and the difficulty be as intended. Whether one way or the other makes sense, I don't care. I just want to play it as intended in the context. Sounds like ATOH is a European expansion without an American version.
I'm not one of those "this is better or worse" types. Different is nice.
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Re: Traps on the other side of the door

Postby Maurice76 » Tuesday June 18th, 2019 4:03am

Jalapenotrellis wrote:Sounds like ATOH is a European expansion without an American version. I'm not one of those "this is better or worse" types. Different is nice.


It is. It was released only in the UK if I recall; it was never released in the Netherlands in any case, so I never got to play it, despite being from Europe myself. As it was a UK-only release, it follows the European rules. This is also the reason why the Ogre stats are so far off with respect to the American Ogres of the Elf Quest Pack.

And yes, I agree with you on the diversity.


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Re: Traps on the other side of the door

Postby wallydubbs » Tuesday June 18th, 2019 10:29am

I'm ok with pit and spear (or even stalagtite and swinging blade) traps on the other side of the door, but Falling Block with no way out aren't as forgivable. Yes, the hero has the chance to back out, but they're not even given a chance to check for secret doors if they so wish to remain separate from the group. This occurs in several quests in Against the Ogre Horde and Mage of the Mirror.
It's very unhero like for the other heroes leave their trapped friend to die when the issue is just a falling block trap. They'd find some way to dig him out. So I'm not willing to let's situations like this stand in my group of play.
Plus I rather like the dynamic of a hero getting separated from the group only to rejoin his companions at the end. For this, I actually encourage the heroes to wander off alone with an unspoken promise to never leave them in an inescapable situation.

The Quest for the Spirit Blade: these falling block traps are NOT falling block traps, but merely falling debris. But for the sake of dynamics let's say the were Falling Block Traps; two rooms can be blocked off under this consideration, one from the inside and one from the out. Should a hero step under the falling block trap outside the door and choose to charge in rather then fall back, I'd leave a trap door for the hero should he search for secret doors. This trap door would lead to the room with the Mummy, which in itself can be blocked off from the inside. This, in essence, gives the hero a 2nd chance. Should he remain in this room when that block falls then he is stuck for the remainder of the quest. At which point after the other heroes complete the objective and defeat all enemies they can dig him out.

Search for the Ogre Fortress: there is a room in the Northeast quadrant that can leave a hero trapped, should he decide to stay in once the trap is triggered. Here I also leave a Trap Door that connects to the central room with the Gargoyle. This room is actually a deterrent rather then one that must be taken to complete the quest, so I thought this would be a good use for it.

The Outer Caves: has the most sinful of all Falling Block Traps, one that could prevent any and all heroes from completing the quest. A simple fix would be to either remove it or add a secret door two squares up, connecting the 2 small rooms.

The Pit of Chaos: has a room inside a room with an unmarked chest guarded by a Zombie, which can trap a hero. Since the chest is unmarked one could add a Pass Through Rock spell scroll in the chest, or add a secret door connecting back to the room with the sorcerer's table.

Fortress of the Ogre Lord: I never liked it that the heroes could potentially leave this quest without actually battling the Ogre Lord. As there is a secret door that leads from his Throne Room to a Falling Block Trap. I'm ok with this trap so long as there's a secret door completing the broken hallway to the room with the stairwell. I can see this going 1 of 2 ways: either the heroes will defeat the Ogre Lord and 1 hero can reach the stairwell before the rest, or the heroes will start the quest, taking the door on the right, find their way to the stairwell, discovering the added secret door that leads to the broken hallway, which leads to the Ogre Lord. One hero may trigger the Falling Block Trap and find himself cut off from the rest of the heroes against a room full of Ogres.

Flight to the Surface: has this one falling block trap should the door open to Room B. This one is either a happy accident or a clever design, as the hero doesn't even have to open this door, Zargon can do that himself on his turn. I can envision the heroes starting down this path, only for Zargon to pull the rug out from under them and block off the path by opening the door. Although a hero can do this himself and jump to either side or dive into the room, the latter option and he's stuck. So I'd just add a secret door that will lead to the Swinging Blade Trap.

The Elven Prospector: this one's a tricky one. Going out the Southern door of the central room leads to a barrage of Orcs. If you step out into that hallway and do anything but fall back you're stuck in that hall. However, like the hypothetical situation meantioned in the Quest for the Spirit Blade, this quest isn't physically connected, so if you don't remove the fall block trap here entirely, the hero stuck in the hall can be dug out by his companions once the quest is finished.

Hidden Realms: in Quest 9 there's a room with multiple Falling Block Traps that go diagonally through a room, possibly cutting off a hero from the rest of his group. If the heroes are foolish enough to activate all these traps with someone stuck on the other side they deserve to stay in that room for the remainder of the quest.
In Quest 10 it happens twice, in Room I and the room below the two small rooms, where a hero can get stuck if he somehow locates the secret door before finding the traps. I'd add a Ring of Return to the chest in Room I, and if the heroes somehow miss the traps but find the secret door in the southern room that would be due to their own incompetence, so no saving grace there.
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Re: Traps on the other side of the door

Postby Jalapenotrellis » Tuesday June 18th, 2019 2:11pm

Just as with ring of return, there is pass through rock, a spell ring that lets you cast it twice if you saved it, and pass through rock spell scrolls that all players have access to. No doubt after it happens once, the heroes will stash away some escapes or just send the wizard or elf with pass through rock thru possible trapped entry ways instead of the dwarf. There seem to be about one per risky quest, not multiple in these quests. While it doesn't seem fair to block off the Heroes, one of the things that makes this game unique is the tough luck aspects of it. It is not a new game with entitled players who get trophies for losing (not sure if that is a mockery of the younger generation in Europe and other parts of the world, but in the US there is a joke that the losers get trophies too if you're born after the 1990s or so).
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Re: Traps on the other side of the door

Postby Kurgan » Monday June 24th, 2019 12:18am

We just played BQP 1 & 2. Stalactite traps are unblockable, and they do occur sometimes on the other side of a door. So the only way to avoid one would a lucky use of pass through rock (assuming you had a spell scroll for it...), or some trap negating Combat Card or other house rule gimmick.
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Re: Traps on the other side of the door

Postby Maurice76 » Monday June 24th, 2019 4:21am

Kurgan wrote:We just played BQP 1 & 2. Stalactite traps are unblockable, and they do occur sometimes on the other side of a door. So the only way to avoid one would a lucky use of pass through rock (assuming you had a spell scroll for it...), or some trap negating Combat Card or other house rule gimmick.


While those traps can be deadly, if a Hero with low hitpoints enters a room, that's just a gamble for the player in question. It isn't game-breaking in the sense that a Hero could get permanently locked up and is essentially dead because of it.


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Re: Traps on the other side of the door

Postby Kurgan » Saturday June 29th, 2019 5:51pm

True. If he's down to 1 body point and walks through a door, I guess he gets what's coming to him. Hard to avoid in BQP solo quests though. You'd have to have saved spell scrolls from another quest pack to avoid it (or just had had enough gold to buy a stockpile of healing potions before setting off). The brand new player/brand new hero thing aside, it is certainly possible, albeit annoying.
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Re: Traps on the other side of the door

Postby Daedalus » Wednesday March 3rd, 2021 6:05pm

A return to this thread got me to check out the UK AotOH Quest, the Outer Caves. (I believe my first look involved the NA version by Phoenix.) Regarding the falling-block room with the Fimir, I now think it's a fair trap as published with the EU rules.

A sure-fire way to defeat this trap is to kill the Fimir before entering. A dagger, crossbow, or spell can do that. Should the monster survive, it must move to the door to return an attack. Once the Fimir is defeated, another Hero can safely search for traps just within the doorway. After that, the Heroes can simply avoid the trap and move on to the exit.

Even with sub-optimal tactics (or the NA falling block of Phoenix's localization), the Heroes can still trigger the trap and win the Quest. The main goal of clearing the raiding room has already been achieved. Since Mentor is magically able to transport replacement Heroes to the start of the next Quest (AotOH, p.11), only one Hero need exit.

Any stranded Heroes should donate all their gear, artifacts, and treasure to the Hero with the Pass Through Rock spell. That Hero then moves through the block or a wall to finish the Quest with any unstranded Heroes. (He can even pass through the block/wall both ways to retrieve the gear, as picking up things in between is not an action.*) Replacement Heroes later get the old Heroes' stuff.

For those Morcar/Zargon players with a soft spot for story over rules, stranded Heroes could instead retrace their steps back to the beginning of Quest 1 and have Mentor magically transport them to the Beginning of Quest 3, reuniting the Heroes.

In the case of other falling-block traps just within a door that strand a Hero, it's the same: the Hero with Pass Through Rock should always move through the wall or block, pick up the trapped Hero's gear/artifacts/treasure (dropped in advance), and move back out in the same turn. The replacement Hero may then begin the next Quest without a handicap.

*Instruction Booklet, p.15: "Important: Getting caught in a trap, drinking potions and picking things up also do not count as actions. They can be done at any time during your turn."
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Re: Traps on the other side of the door

Postby Kurgan » Wednesday March 3rd, 2021 6:10pm

I'd just fix it with a hidden secret door, or spell scroll of pass through rock in the trapped room. While the damage could be avoided by luck, the blocked square cannot under normal circumstances.

I also have the Artifact "Borin's Helmet" which reduces damage from those "falling on your head traps" by 1.

My new Ranger hero can once per quest (pure luck, really) search the other side of an open door for traps using his special Detection skill.
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