Ye Olde Inn

j_dean80 wrote:So I was re-reading this and noticed something:

j_dean80 wrote:2) If you are a spellcaster with a Healing Spell, and you have not already performed an action on your turn, you can be healed by casting the spell on yourself.

This would only work if the Hero gets to perform an Action “out of turn”.

If you haven't performed an action on your turn then you can use it.

We never interpreted this to mean that you could ONLY use a healing spell to save yourself if you died from falling into a trap. It would apply in all situations, EXCEPT if you just searched for Treasure and this triggered a Furniture Trap, Wandering Monster attack, or Hazard card dealing the killing blow (and you had no healing potions of course, which never waste an action).

When it's your turn you would always have a "free action" which seems to be a loophole in the rules I guess. Otherwise you're going to say if a monster attacks you in any other scenario, then you're out of luck because it wasn't your turn at that moment.

Strictly speaking it also doesn't mention Spell Scrolls (which weren't introduced until the NA edition quest packs), which can be used by non-"spellcasters," but still count as an action, as if you really are casting the spell so I'd allow that too.

Saving yourself from dying in the NA version is like the EU version having 1 BP monsters.

Kurgan wrote:

j_dean80 wrote:So I was re-reading this and noticed something:

j_dean80 wrote:2) If you are a spellcaster with a Healing Spell, and you have not already performed an action on your turn, you can be healed by casting the spell on yourself.

This would only work if the Hero gets to perform an Action “out of turn”.

If you haven't performed an action on your turn then you can use it.

We never interpreted this to mean that you could ONLY use a healing spell to save yourself if you died from falling into a trap. It would apply in all situations, EXCEPT if you just searched for Treasure and this triggered a Furniture Trap, Wandering Monster attack, or Hazard card dealing the killing blow (and you had no healing potions of course, which never waste an action).

When it's your turn you would always have a "free action" which seems to be a loophole in the rules I guess. Otherwise you're going to say if a monster attacks you in any other scenario, then you're out of luck because it wasn't your turn at that moment.

Strictly speaking it also doesn't mention Spell Scrolls (which weren't introduced until the NA edition quest packs), which can be used by non-"spellcasters," but still count as an action, as if you really are casting the spell so I'd allow that too.

Saving yourself from dying in the NA version is like the EU version having 1 BP monsters.

You’re forgetting if you trigger a trap it ends your turn (so, out of turn). If you got attacked by a wandering monster then you already used your Action to search (so, out of turn), or someone else’s wandering monster attacked you (still not on your turn). Or a monster attacked you on Zargon’s turn (out of turn).

j_dean80 wrote:So I was re-reading this and noticed something:

j_dean80 wrote:2) If you are a spellcaster with a Healing Spell, and you have not already performed an action on your turn, you can be healed by casting the spell on yourself.

This would only work if the Hero gets to perform an Action “out of turn”.

When playing Melar's Maze with one of my groups, the Wizard stepped on the Falling Block Trap in the northern hall, resulting in his would-be death. However he still had the Heal Body spell. He assumed he was dead, but I noted that he had not used his action yet and could therefore cast it to save himself.
I believe this was the intention of the note meantioned above.

j_dean80 wrote:NA rules are very clear in terms of Hero death and potions:

How A Hero Escapes Death
As a Hero, if your Body Points have been reduced to zero, there are two situations where you can save yourself:

1) If you have a Healing Potion in your possession, you can immediately drink it. The potion will instantly raise your Body Points above zero, restoring you to life.
2) If you are a spellcaster with a Healing Spell, and you have not already performed an action on your turn, you can be healed by casting the spell on yourself.

Important! After your Body Points have reached zero, you can never be saved by a fellow Hero's spell or potion. It will be too late. You will have died by the time it is your fellow Hero's turn--the only time when he can cast a spell or give you a potion.

The EQP/BQPs clarified Hero's passing of items:

*Passing Items: A Hero can pass a potion, artifact, weapon, or any other item to another Hero only if the 2 Heroes are in adjacent squares and neither Hero is adjacent to a monster.

This reads so that you can heal yourself even during the enemie's turn, prerequisites are only that you didn't use your action during your turn and that you still have a spell.

This goes directly against another rule, that you can take use your action only on your turn. So either it is meant to be an exception or it is yet another inconsistency.

I guess it is an exception.

It goes against my every instinct to hide an exception somewhere on page x of the rule book, not mentioned under "turn order" and not on the game card.

The game cards override the rule book, the quest notes override both. If there was this exception, it really should be on the game card, like "dispell". So if it is meant to be an exception, it still is an inconsistency.

If it is no exception and can be used only before turn end, it becomes nearly useless. Doesn't feel good either way.

So now you got me thinking if I should put this on the healing spell cards of my own wizardry system.

So are we agreed that the NA rules are explicitly clear that there are only 2 ways that a Hero can escape death and one of those #2 seems to be impossible as you can only cast a spell on your turn, as an action and setting off a trap ends your turn immediately

Glad we cleared that one up

So only way to escape death is with a Healing potion (whether it is your turn or not) in the US rules and in the EU rules you just die no escape!

Anderas wrote:

j_dean80 wrote:NA rules are very clear in terms of Hero death and potions:

How A Hero Escapes Death
As a Hero, if your Body Points have been reduced to zero, there are two situations where you can save yourself:

1) If you have a Healing Potion in your possession, you can immediately drink it. The potion will instantly raise your Body Points above zero, restoring you to life.
2) If you are a spellcaster with a Healing Spell, and you have not already performed an action on your turn, you can be healed by casting the spell on yourself.

Important! After your Body Points have reached zero, you can never be saved by a fellow Hero's spell or potion. It will be too late. You will have died by the time it is your fellow Hero's turn--the only time when he can cast a spell or give you a potion.

The EQP/BQPs clarified Hero's passing of items:

*Passing Items: A Hero can pass a potion, artifact, weapon, or any other item to another Hero only if the 2 Heroes are in adjacent squares and neither Hero is adjacent to a monster.

Respectfully, of course, I have to disagree with you.

Anderas wrote:This reads so that you can heal yourself even during the enemie's turn, prerequisites are only that you didn't use your action during your turn and that you still have a spell.

No it does not, as it states "if... you have not already performed an action on your turn. The word 'already' implies that it is still your turn. As death can happen on your turn via traps, it does not read on the monster's (Zargon's) turn.

Anderas wrote:This goes directly against another rule, that you can take use your action only on your turn. So either it is meant to be an exception or it is yet another inconsistency.

I guess it is an exception.

It goes against my every instinct to hide an exception somewhere on page x of the rule book, not mentioned under "turn order" and not on the game card.

The game cards override the rule book, the quest notes override both. If there was this exception, it really should be on the game card, like "dispell". So if it is meant to be an exception, it still is an inconsistency.

If it is no exception and can be used only before turn end, it becomes nearly useless. Doesn't feel good either way.

So now you got me thinking if I should put this on the healing spell cards of my own wizardry system.

I'm all for adjusting the rules when befitting the game and making specifications when the rules are unclear.

However I still have to disagree on the intention of the noted text. The cards would have specified something
about being able to cast these spells out of turn order. "Flashback" and the Chaos spells "Mirror Magic" and "Dispell" in the Elf Quest Pack is the only spell where this can be done.
To find a point of contention where the Elf or Barbarian quest packs are MORE considerate then the original game system is unprecedented!

Even with the condition of not using your action on your turn, allowing these spells to work during a monster's turn seems a little too powerful.

Another portion you've noted that just slipped by, which I've never noticed before until now:

b]Important![/b] After your Body Points have reached zero, you can never be saved by a fellow Hero's spell or potion. It will be too late. You will have died by the time it is your fellow Hero's turn--the only time when he can cast a spell or give you a potion.

[/quote]
By this quote, it is almost explicable that heroes CANNOT pass items unless it is their turn. I've been playing it wrong.

It wouldn't be too crazy... Wandering Monsters are basically Zargon taking a turn (only to attack, not to move) in the middle of the Hero's turn... and a Wandering Monster attack doesn't end the Hero's turn because he can still move (if he hasn't already), just like a Hazard. This leads sometimes to the "monster gets to attack twice" scenario, where the last Hero before Zargon did the turn. But hey, I didn't get an extra turn, I am just taking my turn which allows me to move and attack with the monsters on the board as Zargon! Rolling defense dice isn't an action of course, since you do it when attacked (normally) regardless.

I had to look again but the only sprung trap that doesn't end your turn in the NA GS is the Spear trap... but only if it doesn't do damage (in which case it wouldn't be killing you in the first place).

This may be desperate or a stretch here, but if we take the wording literally, it says "not yet on your turn" mean that you die... and then when it's your turn you can use the spell? It might seem strange, since why would you be able to do an action while your body points are zero, but you can already in the specific case when you stepped on a trap.

As for traps ending your turn though, it explicitly says when you haven't yet done the action, so if you haven't, even if the trap "ends your turn" you still get to use the spell. Otherwise it's a completely superfluous rule (like searching for secret doors inside a pit "room"). I think a certain amount of play with the sequence is fine, a bit like people who roll their movement dice, then do an action, then move (is that allowed? I'm not going to get upset about it unless they're using a card that says they have to do something before rolling).

As Zargon of course its your choice to interpret it one way or another. I love hearing people trying to work these issues out though, another one of the reasons I love the community!


Passing potions ON YOUR TURN is an important clarification. I think I have probably forgotten before and passed a potion to a comrade when it wasn't my turn. If Zargon allowed it, that's it though! The fact that you can USE a potion anytime confuses some people. But the mechanic described is "drinking" the potion, as opposed to pouring it on somebody (like the healing spell "Water of Healing" might). The active player gives the object to the other player. Accepting is passive, but giving requires it to be your turn.

wallydubbs wrote:

j_dean80 wrote:So I was re-reading this and noticed something:

j_dean80 wrote:2) If you are a spellcaster with a Healing Spell, and you have not already performed an action on your turn, you can be healed by casting the spell on yourself.

This would only work if the Hero gets to perform an Action “out of turn”.

When playing Melar's Maze with one of my groups, the Wizard stepped on the Falling Block Trap in the northern hall, resulting in his would-be death. However he still had the Heal Body spell. He assumed he was dead, but I noted that he had not used his action yet and could therefore cast it to save himself.
I believe this was the intention of the note meantioned above.

Yes, but technically setting off a trap instantly ends your turn.

Important! After your Body Points have reached zero, you can never be saved by a fellow Hero's spell or potion. It will be too late. You will have died by the time it is your fellow Hero's turn--the only time when he can cast a spell or give you a potion.

This also says you would have to use the Healing Spell out of turn because “It will be too late.” if you waited ‘til your next turn. Or it is saying it would have to be on your current turn, but there’s no circumstance that would allow you to on your turn either.

Time to design the "Thief class" who can grab a potion or healing spell from any adjacent Hero as they are dying, to save themselves... ??

I would like to know if I've been reading it wrong all these year and/or of the designers really did screw up... even if I DO keep playing it "My way."

Wonder if they'll clarify this in the Remake?