EU vs. NA rule comparison

[wallydubbs]

Strange Brew, eh?

I do want to be clear, there are no refunds for potions with mice in them. They’re part of our specialty “protein drink” line of potions. And we normally charge extra.

*thinking out loud...* Maybe that's what the Orcs put in the Potion they fed to Merry and Pippin

[Zenithfleet]

Long time since I've posted here. The remake has awoken me from my rest. Now I shall raise old topics from the grave ...

Oh wait, someone else already did that. Carry on then.

Anyway ...

I was startled to realise (or remember) that in the EU rules you don't keep potions between Quests. That's something we stopped doing long ago--we took to noting them down on character sheets instead, just like gold, because it seemed to make more sense. But now I'd like to go back and play the proper EU 'spoilage' rule. Should keep the heroes getting too overpowered by stocking up like portable chemist's shops.

(I'm pretty sure that the EU Quests don't give out 'long-life condensed potions' in treasure chests etc. until the expansions. I had a quick look through the base game's questbook and didn't see any potions in the notes.)
EDIT: Whoops, there's one in Sir Ragnar! Actually, this one was probably the reason we started recording all potions on character sheets, because if you get to keep that one from the chest, why not the others? If potions in chests weren't found until later, we probably would have become accustomed to treating them as cards and discarding them at the end of each Quest.)

The EU version is vague about when you can drink potions. However, the cards themselves say 'you can drink the potion at any time'. You could probably do so during other players' turns, or even during the evil wizard player's turn in the middle of a fight.

However ...

... in the EU rules you can't drink a potion when you're reduced to zero Body points. (You can't cast a healing spell on yourself either.) This is because you're eliminated when your Body points reach zero, and an eliminated character or monster is immediately removed from play.

A lot of North American players look at the EU 1-Body-point monsters and shake their heads in disbelief. But combat can be more lethal than it looks for the players ... because the instant you're reduced to 0 BP, you're dead. No resurrection possible. Doesn't matter if you've got a potion or a spell waiting in reserve. No safety net.

(I could make an ironic political comment here, but I'm better than that. )

I recall many games when players on 1 or 2 BP grew genuinely nervous because a single bad roll was all that stood between them and permanent oblivion for their beloved character. Very old-school D&D, or so I hear.

The Wizard in particular never gets the full benefit out of a healing potion because he has to drink it when he's on 1 or 2 BP (going back up to his meagre maximum of 4) rather than waiting till he's dead to get all 4 BP back.

(On the bright side, the EU Wizard can happily wield certain Quest Treasure weapons like Orcs Bane and the Spirit Blade. Hey, if Gandalf could do it ...)

Other bits and pieces:

Some of the EU rules mentioned in the original post look like 1st edition (Premiere edition) rules, rather than 2nd ed EU rules. There's nothing about 'no backtracking' in 2nd edition, for instance.

Surprised to rediscover that you can search passages for treasure in the EU version. Again, something we dropped at some point--probably after hearing about the NA version.

Also, about becoming a Champion: Although the 2nd EU edition took out the reward for becoming a Champion, and thus apparently made the title pointless ... the Wizards of Morcar expansion says that 'Champions' can hire Men-at-Arms (mercenaries). It doesn't explicitly say there's a rules restriction, but the use of the term implies that only Heroes who have completed three Quests are allowed to hire them. This could affect replacement Heroes who show up after someone dies.

Plus, WoM has a lot of cool stuff that can be added to any of the earlier material (making up for its lacklustre Quests) and I'd love to try allowing Men-at-Arms from an early stage--even in the base game.

[Kurgan]

What about the Elixir of Life?

[Oftkilted]

Surprised to rediscover that you can search passages for treasure in the EU version. Again, something we dropped at some point--probably after hearing about the NA version.

The issue with “searching a passage for treasure” is there is no rule for how to pull from the treasure deck. The EU version only directs a hero to pull from the treasure deck when searching in rooms.

[wallydubbs]

What about the Elixir of Life?

It's an artifact, not a Potion found in the Treasure deck.

[Kurgan]

But while it can't (in the EU version) save you from dying, someone else can use it to bring you back anytime...

[Zenithfleet]

Surprised to rediscover that you can search passages for treasure in the EU version. Again, something we dropped at some point--probably after hearing about the NA version.

The issue with “searching a passage for treasure” is there is no rule for how to pull from the treasure deck. The EU version only directs a hero to pull from the treasure deck when searching in rooms.

Good point. From the text as written I'd interpret it two ways:

1. You'll only find treasure in a passage if the Quest Notes specify a treasure. Otherwise you don't draw a card. (And when has there *ever* been a specific treasure in a passage?)

2. You draw a card for every Treasure search, and they just forgot to mention it.

Of course 3) is also possible (you can't search in passages) but if so they laid out the rules explanations in a way that makes it hard to notice, since they start off talking about generic rules for both kinds of searches and make it sound as if you can do either in a passage.

I seem to recall running into a few problems long ago when we allowed searching in passages, and we eventually stopped doing it because it was fiddly in some way, but I can't remember what the issue was.

Still, it's just ambiguous enough that I've recently revised a couple of custom treasure cards to avoid saying 'room', on the off-chance that they're gained from searching in a passage.

What about the Elixir of Life?

It's an artifact, not a Potion found in the Treasure deck.

Also, it doesn't exist. Not in the official EU version, anyway. Same with the Armband of Healing.


Another thing: The EU rules for searching for traps state that the trap tile is placed onto the board. And is removed when disarmed. This irked me even as a kid.

Spear traps are no problem since you don't place a tile--they're automatically sprung and disarmed when found.

However, pit traps, and especially falling block traps, don't really make sense this way. Both have permanent effects on the board once triggered (a big hole / a load of rubble) that don't seem like things you can casually remove with pliers or Dwarf know-how.

Surely you can find an unsprung pit without actually making it pop open and leave a gaping hole in the floor that everyone has to jump? And how exactly does the Dwarf 'disarm' an open pit and remove the tile? What does he fill it with, dandruff shaken from his beard?

As for falling block traps... urgh. Finding it means you're supposed to put the fallen block onto the board. Apart from the weirdness of the ceiling giving way the moment you realise the ceiling is rigged to give way, this can actually stuff up a Quest if it's one of those traps designed to separate a player from the rest of the group. Instead of a) separating a player because they were incautious, or b) rewarding the party for finding the trap by letting them stay together and move past the unfallen block safely, you can end up dropping the rocks too soon (e.g. when they're at the far end of the corridor) and blocking the whole team on the 'wrong' side.

This then raises the question of whether the Dwarf can disarm and remove a fallen block tile. How do you 'disarm' a pile of rocks blocking a corridor? And if he can do that, can't he remove the other fallen blocks around the map, which all look the same in the EU version?

Or have I misinterpreted something here? Please tell me I have, because this has bothered me for decades.

However... assuming I'm reading the EU rules correctly, the simplest house-ruled solution is pretty, uh, simple. Just add two words to page 12 of the EU 2nd ed rulebook:

'Pit traps and falling block traps are placed onto the board upside down when found.'

This conveniently marks the square where the trap is, and lets the Dwarf or toolkit-armed Hero move up adjacent to the trap to disarm it (i.e. removing the upside-down tile). It follows the EU rules--putting tiles on the board and then removing them--so the Dwarf's ability and toolkit still work as written. But it doesn't actually spring the pit trap or drop the rocks until you step on the marked square, at which point you flip the tile over (and move it to the arrow space if it's a falling block).

In effect, you replicate the NA version's 'this square looks dodgy' mechanic with a handy visual aid, and without needing to change any other EU rules to match.

And the base game's pit and block tiles have a black underside, so they look appropriately sinister on the board with no need to resort to fancy NA skull tokens.

[Kurgan]

Really? That's a shame, so the EU version is pretty strict when it comes to dying (rename the Hero in the next quest), the polar opposite of the Japanese version. I guess I was confused by the fan made Elixir of Life "artefact" (aka Quest Treasure) on the Inn pages, my bad.

I like the idea of the character filling in the Pit trap with a shovel... (or bracing the ceiling of a falling block trap?)

Surprised to rediscover that you can search passages for treasure in the EU version. Again, something we dropped at some point--probably after hearing about the NA version.

The issue with “searching a passage for treasure” is there is no rule for how to pull from the treasure deck. The EU version only directs a hero to pull from the treasure deck when searching in rooms.

That would seem pedantic (what, the game locks up and has to be reset if you search?). But I did find the clarification from how it works in the Premiere Edition (aka the 1st Edition)... (and comparison with the EU) re: searching corridors (aka passages) for Treasure.

[Kurgan]

Interesting about the Falling Block Traps in the EU edition... (and I see the EU Instructions use the term "eliminated" to mean "killed") so that's what the arrows meant! I may have to go back over Phoenix's conversions of the EU exclusives to see if he got those right.

[Kurgan]

So I guess I'm confused then about the (non-Alchemist Shop) Potions "expiring." Where exactly does it say they have to be discarded if not used between quests for the EU version?

I did once play an NA game using EU style spells, but I've never played a full game using the NA rules. I would definitely need to brush up first! So the Expansion Packs lacking the new Artifacts is piled onto the Game System lacking the Chaos Spells. I guess the EU folks did get a little extra artwork and cooler fonts and the Equipment cards (not to mention some neat exclusive Expansions).