Trap Disarming Error

[mitchiemasha]

I like to think of the big book write up as possible things you could include to Quest notes or Cards etc. The book itself wouldn't be needed in actual gaming or to be known by the players...

My intention was for a campaign to start off with basic rules, then as new Quest were played rule modifiers come into effect. Be it via Quest notes or artifacts discovered in the last Quest. By the end of the campaign they players should be playing quite advanced rules.

[mitchiemasha]

You just set them all off while standing out of the way.

Exactly what i thought.

[cynthialee]

I like to think of the big book write up as possible things you could include to Quest notes or Cards etc. The book itself wouldn't be needed in actual gaming or to be known by the players...

My intention was for a campaign to start off with basic rules, then as new Quest were played rule modifiers come into effect. Be it via quest notes or artifacts discovered in the last Quest. By the end of the campaign they players should be playing quite advanced rules.

this is a good plan

It is similar to my approach with RPG's and new players. At low level their enemies are mostly all melee fights. As the campaign gets tougher the bad guys start doing counter attacks and using shields. By the time they are mid level I am shooting arrows, sling bullets and low level spells at them. By the time they are just starting the high level campaigns they are dealing with high magic ranged attacks, teleporting enemies, polymorph spies and armies.
I slowly teach them the rules via the campaign as they level up.

A very similar approach.

[knightkrawler]

Quest notes are what makes the game more than a hack and slash fest. You can put some pretty crazy stuff in a quest as a one-off. I don't know why everyone is so keen on making their updated HQ rules into a 100 page book that features every possible thing you could do. I'd much rather have 50 quests with a different unique rule in each one.

Word.

[slev]

Quest notes are what makes the game more than a hack and slash fest. You can put some pretty crazy stuff in a quest as a one-off. I don't know why everyone is so keen on making their updated HQ rules into a 100 page book that features every possible thing you could do. I'd much rather have 50 quests with a different unique rule in each one.

Word.

I learned that lesson, which is why the new version of HQR has the rule book, then a seperate "dungeon guide" for all the traps, overlays, markers furniture, unusual doors, etc, while still allowing for more detail than the quest books can show.

[Daedalus]

Now, what if a hero announces the square he wants to free from traps and errs in where that square actually is? That is to say, he moves into the wrong square (which contains no trap at all and nobody tells him cause either they are pricks or they all haven't memorized correctly). What do you do? Tell him, "Dude, that's not your square" and let him move on, or "Pppprrrrrrzzzzzt, failure!" and end his move, or let him roll and go "Weeelll, you failed anyway, cause, dude, that's not your square"?

He wastes his action. I tell him there is no trap to disarm on that square. At this point he has moved and performed (attempted) his action. Next player should search for traps, but that's their decision.

Exactly. Let him lose his action on a free square, like he searched it.

Needless to say, I play a ruleset based on NA rules. To answer my own question, I concur with sajungzak and Sotiris all the way.
It's again one of those instances where the EU rule is plain bullshit, and the NA rule basically an improvement, but still poorly (prone to ambiguous interpretation) worded.

From p.21 of the US Instruction Booklet at the beginning of Action 6--Disarm a Trap:

As a Hero, to disarm an unsprung trap,
you must first know its location, and you
must possess a tool kit (or be the Dwarf)....

If a Hero doesn't remember the proper location, then his announced attempt is a failure, ending his turn. Thinking a stone statue is a monster and targeting it with a spell or attacking it with a weapon also result in failure. Failures springing from false assumptions are allowed to happen in Quests and take up actions.

[Jafazo]

Note - My response is based solely on the US version.

Firstly, I don't mark traps at all for Heroes. It's a good solution and can definitely work, but I just don't do it. I like that the Heroes might forget where traps are.

As for how I handle a Hero who moves onto the wrong square to disarm a trap, as far as I'm concerned, that Hero doesn't know the traps location and the rules specify that the Hero must know its location to disarm it. Therefore, I tell the Hero, "You seem to have forgotten the location of the trap and have used your action this turn." The Hero can't perform an action, the end. The Hero can resume his movement and risk triggering the trap, or he can end his movement. The next Hero can attempt to disarm the trap running the same risk to end his turn if he chooses the wrong square. On the next turn of the Hero who got it wrong, he can either search for traps again to learn the location, or he can try and select another square and risk wasting his action if he chooses the wrong square again.

[sajungzak]

Right on, except:
You can move and then perform an action, or you can perform an action and then move. You cannot move, perform an action, and then resume movement. Attempting to disarm a trap requires movement followed by an action. If for any reason the attempt fails, your turn is over. Pass the dice.

[wallydubbs]

There was this one time we were playing Prince Magnus' Gold. My brother, playing as the Dwarf was outraged when he stepped out a door to immediately fall into a pit trap.
He spitefully continued playing assuming a trap was behind every door and around every single corner.
When they reached the north-eastern corner there was indeed a spear trap laying in wait.
Despite nobody actually searching for traps, my brother announced that he would be disarming the trap and successfully rolled to do so.
Although the trap was never appropriately identified I let it slide.

In essence, it could work both ways, couldn't it? If the Dwarf moves to a space where no trap is and attempts to disarm it, shouldn't he be able to disarm a trap on a space he correctly guesses for?

[Stig]

Well, maybe yes according to the wording of the rules; but this clearly is a situation where it's against the spirit of the rules. I would plea to the section of the rules where it states that Zargon is always right, and as Zargon say they can't disarm a trap that they haven't found yet. A funny workaround though! Glad to see trap create a high level of tension in the Quests..